Aluminum Snaps?

[Stumper]

Okay here's a pic of the snap with a modern double locing for comparison. I'm pretty sure that these are still available-I've seen them in catalogs within the last few years. When I purchased a lanyard with these on it back in the 1980's they were billed as locking safety snaps.

 

[Stumper]

her's another with the gate partway open.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Yep, still got'em laying around, use'em for rigging and utility!

 

[Stumper]

One more, on the D. Note the dimensions of the opening and the radius of the D. If one wiggles and twists without a load on the snap to keep the D seated in the hook it is possible to side load the gate, but the tab and slot of the closure prevent anything from happening. The snap will not rotate far enough to change the force vectors into a gate opening motion. (On small rings that changes and it will spin off.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Wow nice examination!

i kinda feel better with double locking snap though; in my mind's eye i can remember seeing a snap like this open, though can't remember well enough (jsut that i try to dis-allow such things) if it was in this particular application /D size. i just remember i like to keep flex-able (utility wise) items that i can use quickly in any circumstance i set, so i lean to the conservative side here too, with double lox.

Very nice application and knotting choice.

How do you like that braid riding on the 3 strand, find any diffrence from braid on braid?

 

[treeclimber165]

Stumper,
The single-action snap you have shown is not approved for life support. In your first picture, the lower snap is approved. The one you are using was declared illegal for life support 10-15 years ago. It took me 2 years before I quit using them, I didn't like having to squeeze the safety on the back side. Now I wouldn't climb without the double locking snap.

 

[Stumper]

165, What we've been gnawing on is the phraseology of the Z --"positive locking carabiner or self closing snap" I am of the opinion that things are phrased that way to keep this style snap acceptable. If you have a current Buckingham catalog you will find that they specify that double locking snaps are needed on some of there Ds they also say that non locking snaps not be used where more than one piece of hardware is connected to a D. Implied is the possibility of safe use of non double lockers in PROPER applications. I have no argument against double lockers being more secure. I use double lockers on my climbing line, however I prefer the Bourdon 1210s for my positioning lanyard. They are: much lighter, more streamlined, much easier to clip in. (and of much better quality fit and finish than the "made in Taiwan" double lockers).

Spydy,
This is a new set up. Thus far I am very pleased with the braid on the 3 strand. Handling is excellent. how it will wear remains to be determined. I have a reverse set up on the climbing line -3 strand Swabisch on Yellow jacket braid. I also set up another lanyard with 3 strand on 3 strand-works but a little harder to adjust with the slack tender.

 

[Nickrosis]

I'm an idiot.

I should have always been checking my snaps visually from the beginning - 100% of the time instead of 95% or whatever. What I was doing was a

, and I'm glad you caught me on it before I looked like

.

 

[treeclimber165]

Stumper,
If you look up on sherrill's site, you will find the single non-locking clip and the non-locking spreader clip. Both have statements in capital letters- NOT TO BE USED FOR LIFE SUPPORT. They have locking spreader clips available.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I like this one, we need it in the smilei library

 

[Stumper]

I agree JPS!
Neat stuff Nick!
165, Point noted but what on earth would you use a spreader snap for except life support?!? Absolutely no offense intended to Sherrill's but I think this is a case of CYA.

 

[Kevin]

I like the lockers, what is a pain in the ass is trying to get them hooked to a D ring that`s laying flat against my saddle.

 

[rbtree]

Kevin,

Yes, the flat, floppy d rings on BHam saddles are for the birds. I have tried to get them to use a better product. I like the size of the large ones, not the shape.

If you wind a bunch of string around the d ring, it will create a bulge which will keep it an inch or so out- better than nothing...

 

[Kevin]

Thanks for the idea Rog, I just put a couple of tie wraps on an elastic strap that is on the belt and secured them around the one D that I clip into.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

I'm not sure that those spreader snaps are so bad, might even be ok with ASNI.
Think about how it takes two seperate motions to open BOTH of those snaps. It takes opening both clips to remove the snap and fall.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Mike,

You made a half step, now finish the step of logic. There are many butt strap saddles that don't have the lower attached permanently to the upper. The butt strap is just slipped through some loops. Load one d-ring and the other slides out Ooops, ground fall.

The other problem is that if one side fails the climber could fall sideways and get hurt by the side load.

What is the point with using antique technology in climbing and then discussing that option on the internet? Let's move forward.

Tom

 

[treeclimber165]

You may have gotten me away from using my rope end as my tail, skipped the Blakes and went straight to the Distal hitch attached with biners. But you won't talk me out of my $89 KK saddle any time soon. ALL the issues that everyone has with the $300 Buckinghams are not on the KK saddle. ALL the various sections are sewn together, the side D-rings stay accessible. The front D-rings are secured by TWO layers of webbing plus a steel sleeve and they stay where you can REACH them to clip in rather than flapping behind your butt. For all you unsatisfied climbers tired of your Buckingham saddles and tired of throwing away hundreds of dollars on new saddles that don't fit, don't work, and wear out too quickly, you might want to try the KK.
Tom and others might blast me for this, but I have worn both and the KK is lighter than the Buckingham also. And the most important parts are made better.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

165,

Sorry if I come across as a "blaster". That isn't my intent. All I'm saying is to consider being open to doing things a different way. In small steps. IF you're content with the performance of the KK, by all means, stick with it. Sure can't argue with the price. Over the years I haven't been real impressed with the B'ham saddles. But they sure are popular. That makes me in the minority. Or maybe my body isn't shaped the same way as the B'ham.

One of my interests is showing the value of modern climbing technology. I will be a happy arbo when I see more grey haired climbers than ones with achy backs. Not too many years ago it was common thought that by the mid-thirties a climber was used up. Now, that attitude is gone.

Tom

 

[Stumper]

Tom, I am probably the most guilty as far as keeping the discussion of antique technology going. I certainly believe that a lot of the new technology is great. Safer, faster, better. However I don't accept that all the old technology/tools are suddenly inherently unsafe. The scenario you describe would certainly be an unsafe combination of gear. But lots of saddles(most?) are pretty foolproof with single locking(self closing) spreaders. I climbed almost daily for years on a Bashlin 637 and spreader and not only never came unclipped but early on tried to deliberately do so without using my hands and concluded that it was so difficult to cause that I had nothing to worry about. Should a person buying a spreader buy a double locker?-Sure. Is the single locker in the gear box trash?-Not necessarily, IMHO.

165, Ive never climbed on a KK or a Buck but Bashlins and Weavers have given me excellent servce. I'm not sure why Weaver doesn't get more good press-they have an extensive line,excellent quality and cost less than comparable Buckinghams. Ive heard lots of good things about KK but have never had a supplier which features them in their catalog.

 

[treeclimber165]

KK looks and costs almost identical to the Weaver, but they fit a little differently. Kinda like Wranglers and Levis. I bought a Weaver once through Sherrill and ended up giving it to a buddy after using it a couple times.

I've never seen KK anywhere except at my saw shop. That's where I've bought my belts for years. They have an online site, if you can spell their name. My new belt last week cost me $89, identical to the last 2 I've bought and used about 5 years each. My old one is good for several more years, but it was starting to stink from sweat.

Actually, you may be right with the spreader snap. The one time I tried one, it was fairly difficult to get out of the darn thing even without locking closures. With a fully sewn belt like the Weaver, you shouldn't have a worry because one side will hold you. Buckinghams will pull apart if only clipped on one side because their support belts are only threaded through without being sewn in place.