Am I Being Taken Advantage Of?

[Frog]

I say move on. From what you and others have said. The equipment doesn't sound like it in very good shape. A waste of money and time to try and buy from him. I was in your same shoes last year. I told them see ya around. I went and got all good used stuff and here in am. Do what you have to and get yourself going. Be competive on your bidding and you'll get what you need soon. People are after a fair price and good workmanship. Do that and you won't have any free time.

Peace Frog

 

[cazman]

wow

i wouldn't get outa bed for that much an hour, nevermind the fact it sounds like hes not putting anything back into the tree climbing part of his company would be more than enough for me to say later buddy .that makes thing way more dangerous in my book your life is worth way more.

 

[TimberMcPherson]

Mate, unless hes going to go for at least 18 an hour, walk.

Take a hack job for 6 months to build up some money to go out on your own.

Or side job your ass off and build up money to go out on your own.

Or look at contract climbing.

 

[baumfreund]

1. you got to ask yourself, if you want to stay with this company
2. if you want to stay, you ve got to talk with the chef. 25 bucks could be ok for first

 

[woodchux]

It does sound like you should be making more money.......However...
No way in hell that i'd pay someone with less that two years experience $25 hour.

 

[Bermie]

Time to talk or walk

People will prey, or unconciously take advantage of those with a good nature and a right moral attitude.
You have to do what you know is right for yourself, but do your market research first. Figure out your options - S.W.O.T. analysis - Strengths, Weaknesses, Opportunities and Threats for each situation

1. If you stay, you HAVE to really talk to this guy, write it down, go in knowing what you want to say and what you want. Do not let him 'fob' you off with passing comments or have a conversation while he's standing with one foot in the Porshe prior to going home, book a time for a proper sit down meeting. be fair but firm. you have to have an ace in the hole, if you say someone else will pay you $20 and he says 'have a good life', you better have that option lined up! Do not burn your bridges, keep the high ground and be polite, you never know when they will be back in your life in the future or even meet your expectations now!

2. If you want to go, research the market FIRST, is there someone else you can work for SAFELY? Can you work and save? Can you go out on your own starting small? I started with a climbing kit, two saws and my confidence all packed on a scooter with my hubby, now I have a van packed with $5000 of kit, contacts and a good reputation and plenty of work.

In the meantime, keep studying for your Certs., that will always help, regardless. I had tucked away lots of training while working for a College, it helped them at the time and helped me now! Its a TWO WAY street!

I worked as landscape manager for a great little hotel for four years, starting pay was great, eveyone was nice, it was a good foundation and I had lots of independence, and three staff, BUT I never got a proper raise, and finally figured I was making less after four years than when I first started, due to annual increases in benefit deductions. I had to have the big meeting with the boss, I knew what I wanted, but they couldn't pay it. I had another company alerted to the fact I was going to be doing this, when I didn't get what I needed, we parted ways very amicably and the other company were ready with the jump net!

People can be real nice to work for, give you opportunities and you grow professionaly in their company, BUT there comes a time when the situation stagnates and as much as you all may respect each other you HAVE to look out for your OWN welfare, give them a chance to ante up, BUT have your fallback position ready.

GOOD Luck, keep your cool,

 

[Rftreeman]

I tell him I want help all the time, but he says "oh, it's just bla bla bla, you can handle it" , "I need to do some bids", "I have a computer job to do", etc.

I am afraid if I get all jacked up in a tree, my good friend might get to watch me die as I wait for my boss to come resuce me, as the city fire dept. guys cant even do an arieal rescue (i know, i was at a seminar for ar. rescue, and so were they, they didn't even try it)

that would be enough for me too go elsewhere and work, he is basicly telling you that he doesn't give a rat's a$$ about you, it makes my skin craw just thinking about what could happen..........get your cert and do your own thing if that's what you really want too do, but if you do, I hope you learned how NOT too run a business from you now BOSS

and yes, you are way under paid and will always be if you stay with that jerk.

 

[Ed Roland]

Vigilante.

Lets say your boss is billing you out @ about $50 and hour.

He can bill one spray tech @ possibly $100 plus, depending on market.

Take your career into the direction of plant health care/soil management and earn a fine living, with winter climbing. Its the best of both worlds and your knowledge of the perenial that is: TREE, will increase exponentially.

 

[SilentElk]

I want to leave, but He's counting on me every day...and I cant afford to have a week's break in the paychecks. Ads cost $, my pickup has no hood or plates or insurance. I cant afford the 700 it costs to start my insurance...I don't want to be known as just another fool with a pickup and a chainsaw and a buddy. I will have to borrow to get started, or make 20+ an hour for a month or more to pay these things.

AWWWWW This sucks! I have no side jobs right now because i cant afford to advertise, I guess I will put out flyers again, and maybe have my friend that runs a radio station hook me up with some spots...need insurance first though.

I feel like a horse that's been rode hard and put away wet. have to be responsible for anything i damage, but don't get the big check.

:angry2:

He will not pay you more because you HAVE to come back to work you cant afford to leave. If he has you by the balls why would he pay you more?

Also, in my experience, buying a tree company, or any other service company for that matter, isnt usually the best idea. They are worth the cost of equipment plus 1 months gross income. Thats it. Unless they are large and have a spellar reputation or contract, you would be throwing money away. Dont give him any more that what you could go and sell the equipment for plus a months gross income. It isnt hard to build an average tree company up.

I suspect he will talk you into buying it for way too much because he will go and find someone that will give you money then convince you it worth X amount. You arent good at saying what you want or need or putting your foot down for that matter. You either need to leave or you are going to screw yourself more than you think.

Personally, you would be better off being a hack without insurance for a week or 2 until you are back on your feet. Just take smaller less risky jobs. I wouldnt recommend this long term but it will work short term. Go yank some junipers. Not much worry there.

 

[rbtree]

Vigilante.

Lets say your boss is billing you out @ about $50 and hour.

Huh? mt said he's bringing in $1800-2200 a day....given an 8 hour day, that is ~$135 per man hr for 2 men...Take some off for the equipment, and it's still a lot... It's also more than I bill out a day here in Seattle, a higher priced market.

And I pay climbers $200-300 a day!

Want a job, mt?

Either that or I'd buy his business and relocate.....I'd love to live closer to Rocky mt powder skiing. Wish I was serious...

 

[clearance]

Huh? mt said he's bringing in $1800-2000 a day....given an 8 hour day, that is $135 per man hr for 2 men...Take some off for the equipment, and it's still a lot... It's also more than I bill out a day here in Seattle, a higher priced market.

And I pay climbers $200-300 a day!

Want a job, mt?

There you go MT, what more do you want? Good man RB.

 

[Timberhauler]

Huh? mt said he's bringing in $1800-2200 a day....given an 8 hour day, that is ~$135 per man hr for 2 men...Take some off for the equipment, and it's still a lot... It's also more than I bill out a day here in Seattle, a higher priced market.

And I pay climbers $200-300 a day!

Want a job, mt?

Either that or I'd buy his business and relocate.....I'd love to live closer to Rocky mt powder skiing. Wish I was serious...

1800 to 2200 a day isn't too far off the mark...If I'm on a job with say...the chipper and the skid loader and four guys on the same job then 2 grand is a reasonable figure....But for a two person crew,that seems a little much.

 

[046]

this time to leave is now... when weather is good.
line up a few big jobs, then hit the road.

but do your homework before giving notice. if you are producing like you say. then why should it be any different when you leave.

you do need some cushion before leaving... you may be better to change jobs to $20 per hour to build up cushion. before going on your own.

there's no perfect situation... you gotta dive sometime. if you don't do it now... it's wait until next year. DO IT!

 

[mtvigilante]

Its great here in the BIG SKY COUNTRY!

I am really thankful to have so many words of encouragement. I know we charge a lot for our work, but we are basicly the only climbers in town! There are a few outfits that claim to climb trees, but most of them mean with a ladder or with just spikes. That being said, our prices have been the same since I came on. Then, it was 2 groundmen and the owner trimming, and unbid work was $200 an hour. $850 a day was overhead, so in an 8 hour day in town, $1600. Storm emergency work was 300 an hour. My groundman and I can get almost as much done as the boss and his previous 2 groundman.
I work 10-12 hour days, and average just a little faster than he bids for with the help of my right hand jeff.

I had time to let the boss know that I cant pay my bills, didn't have time for a sit down, which will take a couple hours I'm sure. He's a good guy, and he has offered me 3 jobs to help me pay the bills. Two he's already got on the list. One he hasn't gotten yet, he bid for 2880-HUGE silver maple, crown reduction, the works. Its too much for me, with a 7200v, 3 house drops, 2 garages, 2 houses, one carport, and a pole pig underneath it's ~110' spread. No insurance, no way. The other two are similar in that they are big jobs, too much for me. He told me he would find me something for this weekend, to keep all the money from, if I don't use his equipment.

I think he's testing me like he has been since i've started. He assumes i can handle anything, and It's up to me to take the leaps to better my skills. I think when I talk to him, He might decide to sell me the trimming business. At the cost of equip and one months contracts, It would probably be worth it..we have an awsome reputation, and the customer base is HIGHLY loyal, and most have plenty of money. I'm sure a lot of them might think twice, but some new marketing angles would ensure a good transition.

Until then i'll be bustin a$$ and learning all I can, and trying to get my name out there.

thanks guys, and i'd love to take some of the jobs i've been offered, but I am a Montanan, and that's where I stay. My next move will be to go out on my own, after i make things clear to the boss man.

 

[Timberchic]

Best wishes from the "timber" family...Hope things work out for the best for you and your family.

Anna

 

[Jumper]

Alberta, just north of Big Sky Country.

If you are contemplating the question, yes you are. You make $14 an hour and the groundie $12???WTF?

But for the &^%$#@! border I'd tell you to move yourself north about 600 miles in a heartbeat.
I made $1000 for twelve hours of overtime counting inventory last weekend.

 

[mtvigilante]

playing my cards

This weekend my groundman and I did some jobs that my bosss gave us. one day-9am-2pm: 4 small jobs-gross=1175-23%(to boss for equip use)-900for us. 60/40 split-$540 to me, $360 for my groundie. made as much in 5 hours as i did all week for him.
A couple of the customers are long time clients too. The neighbor to one of them (also a long time client), told me that he has been talking to my boss about me taking over the company...he said that the boss thinks that is a good idea, and is thinking about it a lot.

He's given me another job for next weekend, who knows how long this will happen? I get the feeling that he is ready to retire. I'll keep you guys posted, thanks for the support!

 

[SilentElk]

That is a significant improvement for your situation. I save and use that money for equipment for the future if possible. Careful though, the quality of the jobs he will 'allow' you to do for own benifit may suffer as time goes on. Not saying it will but ju8st keep an eye. Still, the whole situation does to appear to be better than it was for the time being. For your sake it I hope it stays that way.