Am I expecting too much from one ground guy?

[tree MDS]

Ground work is HARDER than climbing, as I see it, if the climber is getting limbs dropped quickly, one right after another. I love climbing, but I understand that I've got to give my groundie a break and let him get things to the truck before I send down my fifth or sixth limb of the day. It is totally unreasonable, again, as I see it, to expect a lone groundie to keep up with you, limb for limb. I also am not the type of climber who is "above" grabbing brush once I get down. If I was a groundie working with a climber who was, I'd tell him to stick it somewhere other than in the chipper feed. Having started out being a groundie, I know from experience which gig is more tiring, more boring, and I'll climb for hours rather than haul brush for a single hour if I can help it. When I work with only one groundie, I can't help it, so I dig in, once I'm back on the ground. As far as the imbeciles on Axe Men, if one of those fat-:censored: :censored: 's yelled in my face, I would leave the gig in a NY minute, right after I decked the stupid :censored: . You might think that those types of bosses get the most done, but they also have the greatest turnover, and that can kill a business, as I've seen it happen, more than a few times.

In all serios sunrise guy I couldnt agree more with all that, climbing is easier (unless its a real PITA tree) if you know what yer doing-if not different story, again though if yer talking pruning, well different again... As far as the fat #@#%$ and the yelling, yeah, I hear ya on all that, and the same thing happened to my ex fat pig boss-after awhile it catches up with you, thankfully, lol.

 

[guitarborist]

Cell phones are only good for emergencies on the job site. If he is texting or talking on the phone and you get hurt in the tree how long will it be before he notices? Tree work is dangerous enough when all the safety precautions are taken.

Many years ago I could ground for 2 climbers at a time as long as there was no rigging, just pruning and the chipper was near by. When I started climbing we had 3 people in the trees and no ground people. We worked on the trees that lined the streets here in Missoula. I brought my chainsaw, pole and handsaw in the tree with me. When I was done I came out of the tree and chipped and raked the area under my tree. When I was done I moved down to the next available tree. The three of us helped each other out quite often. Now I think that is not a safe practice at all, we had to watch out for peds on the sidewalk and traffic on the streets. In 6 years we did not have an accident but that probably was just luck. It was also hard on the body.Now we always have 1 or 2 people on the ground depending on the job. We are a 3 person crew still. We rotate jobs (ground vs tree) and we never have any problems with the ground work piling up. I think your ground person should be able to keep up. I think the climber should be able to help the ground person when they are done with the prune. No one on the job site should be too good or above any job duty.

 

[baquila]

Well, for certain I am not above doing ground work and there is no way I expect one ground guy to keep up on takedowns or extensive roping of limbs that are one after the other all in one area. Actually, I enjoy carrying logs or rollin em on the cart - at least it's a good workout. As far as climbing being less physically stressful than ground work I think that also depends on how each is being done, and the nature of the job. There are many ways to conserve energy in the tree or on the ground, so being strategic about it is key. I'm seeing a mixed reaction here - some guys think the groundie should keep up most of the time, some think there's no way. That tells me that my uncertainty on the subject matter makes sense - it depends on a lot of factors. As far as having the ole ladies workin with ya, I've had mine help out a number of times and she's awesome! One of the reasons I'm reluctant to hire a second groundie to go along with the first is that I've done that a handful of times and when my main guy is given a helper, my main guy really slacks and the helper gets pissed cuz the main guy is slacking. So I feel like its been a waste of money to some degree. Thats where the "working with friends" and "being a hardass or not" topics come into play.

 

[tree MDS]

Gotta love it when you hire an extra guy and yer ground guy seems to think its his pesonal slave, so now he does'nt have to do anything! I'm seeing a trend here, lol, I swear, they're all the same! lol. They just never seem to get the economics of the whole thing. :monkey:

 

[Joe]

If your ground guy is staying busy, you have a consciencious worker. If he stays busy, he gets along with you, watches taking too many breaks, and you like him, you shouldn't ask for anything more and count your blessings. Branches hang in the tree as pruning progresses so the ground guy's work can get more demanding near the end of the pruning work. No matter how good your ground guy, there will be cleanup once you're out of the tree. If your guy is doing his best, expect nothing more and pat him on the back for working hard. The guy in the tree definitely dictates the pace of the job. It took some time for me to realize this fact.

Joe

 

[Nailsbeats]

If you think he is ####in the dog then he is. Jack him up, if he breaks you didn't lose much.

Short and to the point, experience will tell you it is true.

 

[ropensaddle]

If your ground guy is staying busy, you have a consciencious worker. If he stays busy, he gets along with you, watches taking too many breaks, and you like him, you shouldn't ask for anything more and count your blessings. Branches hang in the tree as pruning progresses so the ground guy's work can get more demanding near the end of the pruning work. No matter how good your ground guy, there will be cleanup once you're out of the tree. If your guy is doing his best, expect nothing more and pat him on the back for working hard. The guy in the tree definitely dictates the pace of the job. It took some time for me to realize this fact.

Joe

Exactly, but it aint that type that pisses me off. It is the dumb azz that brings you an empty saw, drags one limb at at time and generally works hard at not working, because they know it will get done when you come down. I wont put up with it ten minutes anymore, I see it you are packing. The ones that jump in and don't always want the light end of the log show up early and ask what else can they do I feel deserve my respect. Groundys are a dime a dozen but great groundys are hard to come by and I know the differance. I do my own mostly because I am tired of yelling watch the flowers and rake it all, but boss we did not drop them limbs! I told you it will look better than we found it so rake it all! 1/2 hour later still raking the same spot roll up you are out of here!

 

[Prune Juice]

You want me to werk?

Freinds-NO Pay by job or hourly rate - YES Bid your own jobs- YES
Supply all equpment- Yes Paying undertable can possibly get you major screwed - YES

 

[treemandan]

Exactly, but it aint that type that pisses me off. It is the dumb azz that brings you an empty saw, drags one limb at at time and generally works hard at not working, because they know it will get done when you come down. I wont put up with it ten minutes anymore, I see it you are packing. The ones that jump in and don't always want the light end of the log show up early and ask what else can they do I feel deserve my respect. Groundys are a dime a dozen but great groundys are hard to come by and I know the differance. I do my own mostly because I am tired of yelling watch the flowers and rake it all, but boss we did not drop them limbs! I told you it will look better than we found it so rake it all! 1/2 hour later still raking the same spot roll up you are out of here!

Those kids just keep raking up the same pile for an hour. It don't move.

 

[treemandan]

Gotta love it when you hire an extra guy and yer ground guy seems to think its his pesonal slave, so now he does'nt have to do anything! I'm seeing a trend here, lol, I swear, they're all the same! lol. They just never seem to get the economics of the whole thing. :monkey:

Oh they get the economics allright. Their economics, which are " the faster I work the less I make." Get it?
Its hard but you have to keep your crew inspired all the time or they lose intrest and all you see is their nostrils.
But some are just worthless for a variety of reasons.

 

[ropensaddle]

Those kids just keep raking up the same pile for an hour. It don't move.

Yeah and the whole time wandering why they have to rake a few extra twigs since they after all are not ours. It is because I said so, if ya don't want to do it fine bye and give me the rake I will do it. Pride in your work is what makes a tree service good clean up is the first thing most customers look at because it is right there where they can see! I know it takes a few more minutes to get the extras but I am paying and I want it done so do it or I will. They just don't get it and act like they are being abused and that is why I work alone.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

He does your sales and customer relations...Maybe he needs to do more of that and you need to phase in a real ground man?

You need to sit down and have a heart to heart on where the business is going. He gets a percentage commission on jobs completed. Helps out on bigger jobs as needed, gets docked for underbids to keep him from lowballing too many jobs.

He becomes a sales consultant getting finders fees that you can eventually start writing off.

 

[Nailsbeats]

Yeah and the whole time wandering why they have to rake a few extra twigs since they after all are not ours. It is because I said so, if ya don't want to do it fine bye and give me the rake I will do it. Pride in your work is what makes a tree service good clean up is the first thing most customers look at because it is right there where they can see! I know it takes a few more minutes to get the extras but I am paying and I want it done so do it or I will. They just don't get it and act like they are being abused and that is why I work alone.

Rope, your comments resinate with me bigtime. I have thought or felt all of these things at one time or another. It's about going beyond the status quo in order to set yourself apart. My day always tells the customer, "the lawn will be cleaner than when we started." Give me the rake, and it will also be done in record time.

I hate that, "you are being to tuff on me" look. Get off my job and go back to your momma.

 

[treemandan]

Rope, your comments resinate with me bigtime. I have thought or felt all of these things at one time or another. It's about going beyond the status quo in order to set yourself apart. My day always tells the customer, "the lawn will be cleaner than when we started." Give me the rake, and it will also be done in record time.

I hate that, "you are being to tuff on me" look. Get off my job and go back to your momma.

don't sell yourself short- it tough work. But John Paul is right, when an employee has a stake in the work and company things get done, they show up.
I would not want to show up and be screamed at by Mds though.

 

[tree MDS]

don't sell yourself short- it tough work. But John Paul is right, when an employee has a stake in the work and company things get done, they show up.
I would not want to show up and be screamed at by Mds though.

Oh quit yer squawking "ben".

 

[treemandan]

Oh quit yer squawking "ben".

No its dan.

 

[tree MDS]

"Treemanben", lol.

 

[ropensaddle]

Rope, your comments resinate with me bigtime. I have thought or felt all of these things at one time or another. It's about going beyond the status quo in order to set yourself apart. My day always tells the customer, "the lawn will be cleaner than when we started." Give me the rake, and it will also be done in record time.

I hate that, "you are being to tuff on me" look. Get off my job and go back to your momma.

Yeah had one once call me an azzhole and I said nope I am
a di--head so get used to it, if you think you are going to halfazzed
do things, wrong you can collect what is coming now and quit wasting
both our time. Ship up or ship out makes no differance to me, I will
still be here lord willing and it is your choice.

 

[baquila]

I've actually been thinkin about moving my current ground guy to sales/estimates and bringin in another climber. I do the climbing right now. My current ground guy doesn't climb at all. If I bring in another climber and can use my current ground guy on the side sometimes while he's working a full time job elsewhere, that's more suited to him and I think it would work out better for everyone. Then my climber and I can split the climbing and ground duties however we see fit and can bring in a third guy when we need it. I can handle doing sales/estimates when we're slow and let my current ground guy handle em when we're busy.

 

[treemandan]

Oh quit yer squawking "ben".

Well you are a self prophesed " screamer" ain't ya? That's bad, real bad. I don't think you know how bad it is. You should see somebody about it- get you right.
well you are certainly ahead now, revel in it.