American Elm Root Flare Issue?

[grilling24x7]

I bought this American Elm tree from a nursery (not the grower directly) in spring of last year. It was purchased in a container. When I planted it I didn't really know about root flare issues. I thought the root flare was meeting of the trunk and top of the containerized soil - it took me a few posts here to realize that I was wrong. However, I tried to plant what I thought was the flare at about 1 inch above ground level.

Anyway, after exposing the root flare on my red maple in my front lawn, I took a look at my Elm tree. I decided to shoot an e-mail to the company that grew the tree (the grower, not the nursery) showing them these two pictures and asking about whether I planted this elm too deep.

He responded that Elms are very tolerant to not having perfectly positioned root flares. He said that my Elm looks fine but I should consider snipping some of those surface roots. So I cut out those surface roots.

What do you guys think? The tree is growing great (about 18 feet tall now), no signs of disease, etc. Should I go out there and dig down a bit more? Or is this Elm ok?

Thanks

John

 

[ddhlakebound]

I think he was trying to tell you (without implicating the nursery) that the roots growing roughly parallel (circling) the trunk will be a big problem in the future when the trunk grows in caliper and meets those roots.

It looks like this tree was pretty rootbound in its pot, and now the roots are trained to grow in the pattern of the pot. Future girdlers for sure without more help. And I'd start looking for a new nursery.

 

[rarefish383]

The depth looks OK, as mentioneed above, the criss crossing roots may be a problem in the future, and snipping them early should help. Lots of trees are tolerant of planting a little too deep. If the tree has been in the ground for several years and is growing OK, I never recommend digging up the crown to try and fix it. If it's growing OK leave it alone, you can do more damage scaring and scraping the roots, than the initial planting too deep, Joe.

 

[grilling24x7]

So I should just keep an eye out for cris-crossing girdling roots and cut them as I see them? I cut the above roots in early spring and now they are no longer there.

 

[ChrisWNY]

If you're going to investigate the flare area any further, use a garden hose to excavate further, don't dig as you risk damaging things, such as the trunk flare. I am betting there are more problematic roots than what you're seeing in that photo.

Every one of my container-grown Maples had root circling issues, the problems weren't obvious until I used the hose to expose more roots, then I was just facing a snakes nest of problems, roots around the trunk, and roots growing every which way. I ended up snipping quite a few roots on my Red Maple, at least the circling roots are gone, but now I have to worry about it not coming back next Spring, it's a waiting game at this point...

 

[treeclimber101]

Never buy potted trees , trees are not meant to be grown in pots , they are B and B material either hand dug or by machine . The girdling issue can be fixed relatively easily over a period of pruning cycles ...More pics would work

 

[ddhlakebound]

This is only my opinion, with no real data to back it up, but...

It's obvious that all circling roots are bad, but some are much worse than others.

The ones at ground level, or very close to it have the opportunity to constrict the entire side or circumference of the trunk of the tree, and do the most damage.

The ones deeper than 6" down will still cause problems, but they will only constrict other roots, and have a possibility of grafting themselves to other roots to form a solid root mass.

In many cases I've seen, the tree is able to adapt to the less than optimal circling roots underground, and out grow the issue as they mature, as long as the trunk of the tree is not constricted.

So it becomes (in my mind) an issue of where the line is between helping the tree survive it's manmade problems, and doing further injury to the tree.

What are everyone elses thoughts on the matter?

 

[ChrisWNY]

Never buy potted trees , trees are not meant to be grown in pots , they are B and B material either hand dug or by machine . The girdling issue can be fixed relatively easily over a period of pruning cycles ...More pics would work

Aren't most containerized trees first grown in a field somewhere, then transplanted to a container when they're ready to sell? That's what I always thought. I haven't had issues with container trees other than Maples; my Oaks, Blue Spruces, and River Birch were all originally containerized and have grown quite well with 0 root issues. I think the problem is more common with Maples due to their aggressive and fast-growing roots, if they're in a container long enough, they need a lot of root slicing before planting. Even with my Maples, I was adamant about slicing the roots around the container ball before planting, that didn't seem to help too much in the long run...

 

[grilling24x7]

Ok, here are a couple more pictures. These were taken today, which is about 4 months after the earlier pictures were taken. You can see that I pruned out the roots which were close to the trunk (looked like they were straddling the trunk). Now there are just a few visible ones left. I left these because they weren't 'straddling' the trunk but going away from it. Advice on these? Should they be pruned out too?

Now that I went back out there and pulled the mulch back I'm comfortable with the root flare situation. I could clearly see it very close to the surface. Its hard to see in the photo but I think its there (at the top in one pic and at the bottom in the other).

I agree that containers are not the way to go, but I'm shocked that what appears to be the main Princeton Elm grower is selling them in containers. They must know that these trees will succeed? Maybe I'm being optimistic.

Thanks,

John

 

[treeclimber101]

Aren't most containerized trees first grown in a field somewhere, then transplanted to a container when they're ready to sell? That's what I always thought. I haven't had issues with container trees other than Maples; my Oaks, Blue Spruces, and River Birch were all originally containerized and have grown quite well with 0 root issues. I think the problem is more common with Maples due to their aggressive and fast-growing roots, if they're in a container long enough, they need a lot of root slicing before planting. Even with my Maples, I was adamant about slicing the roots around the container ball before planting, that didn't seem to help too much in the long run...

Well thats a good question , I think it depends on your region and soil types, I have worked in alot of nurseries and we would start in pot and transplant to field but in most cases this was smaller foundation and landscape plants , my brother has a farm growing solely leyland cypress and boxwoods and they keep them in hot houses in pot because of deer and other animals damaging them and frost ..Shade trees and evergreens aswell grown for the most part in field ..

 

[treeseer]

new pics show issues. do like chris says, get out the hose and expose the first primary root coming off the trunk, snipping those little crossing ones per need.

 

[grilling24x7]

Thanks for the reply. Two questions:

1. Doesn't the red circle show the primary root leaving the main trunk? I know its hard to see but it sure is a large root projection coming out from the trunk.

2. What about the green circles. Should these roots be clipped?


John

 

[ChrisWNY]

Remove some more soil using a garden hose, I think you've only scratched the surface, there may be more problematic roots another 1/2"-1" into the topsoil. When I first started removing soil around my Red Maple, the roots looked similar to what is shown in your photos. As I removed more soil using the hose, there were numerous problematic roots that needed to be clipped. I'm hoping the problem is solved, but I'll have to keep an eye on things for the next few years...

 

[grilling24x7]

I went out with the hose. Wow, what a muddy mess!

I went down a tad bit more, I saw a few more cris-crossing roots that were real small so I snipped them. I also took out the green circled roots. I think the elm is fine now. From using the hose I now see that my red circle is indeed a primary root coming off so things should be fine, especially since I read that Elms are pretty good at being tough with flare and container issues (just as the grower told me).

 

[grilling24x7]

OK - here's the updated pics. I must have gone down an inch.

Think this is good enough? I cut out quite a bit of criss-crossing roots. It looks to be real deep as there's some crazy looking roots appearing. My instinct says to STOP now b/c this just seems too deep.

Any comments are greatly appreciated. I'll be going to buy some more mulch today as my current mulch is a muddy mixed mess. I'll lay a light layer on top of what you see here in the picture and be done with this project.

John

 

[treeseer]

looks like 2 good radial roots but still a stem-girdling root in between them. hose just a little more and you will see it.