Another large removal for your veiwing pleasure

[jomoco]

Just the opposite, with straight picks. The kerf will automatically open up if you start cutting where the the load is choked and the cable runs up. One cut straight through. There were problems on this job, as the crane was nearly at its limit, and that tipped piece that I showed had side weight and was choked about 4 feet down. Would have been better to have kerf cut the crane side of that log, and maybe preinstalled wedges. The operator maybe should have cabled up to relieve the saw bind, and keep shock loading down when the piece came off. But also, the closer in he could get the load, the better. Eventually, it did come off fairly smoothly. But it was a dicey moment, as the weight was a tad too close to the limit. (Crane was only rated at 70-80 tons, as he didn't have his counterweights on.)

Hey there RB,

I'd like to respectfully point out two potential draw backs of your technique.

The first being straight picks, in my experience with cranes it is virtually impossible to achieve a straight lift without using two chokers positioned 180 degrees apart from each other to do so, this assuming you're working a vertical pole or trunk section. Bearing this in mind, if one choker is used and you want the pick to move away from you and towards the crane (center of gravity) you will want to position the single choker on the far side of the crane and have the hook just slightly off center with the pick in the direction of the crane, this ensures that the pick will move away from you and towards the crane in a graceful fluid motion after you make the cut. To achieve truly smooth picks, your ability to guesstimate the weight of each pick is important, and by communicating with the crane operator before and after each pick about your your preload instructions guesstimate versus the actual weight of the pick, you will get better at it with each pick.

The second potential drawback to your technique that concerns me is your preference for using one straight through cut on your picks. This method is fine provided you are independently tagged in to a section of the tree and your bodyline is clear of the picks travel path and that your lanyard is not used below the cut point. However if you are working a pole down and both your bodyline and lanyard are secured below the cut point, I would caution you not to use a straight through cut, particularly when using large powerful cranes like a 120 hydro. If for any reason the cut can't be finished quickly and force is being applied to the pick, the danger of tear off or splitting is very real, along with the possibility serious injury to the climber.

The best way to avoid this danger is to start your cut on the pinch side, the fulcrum side, closest to the crane. then work your way around to the back side furthest away from the crane, the side where the single choker runs up to the hook to finish the cut.

This can easily be done with one circular cut. Imagine the cut from directly above as a clock face with the six oclock position towards or closest to the crane, the twelve oclock position is where the choker is positioned and runs up to the hook. We want the pick to move towards six oclock ( the crane).
Let's say the pick has a diameter of 48 inches or 4 ft. Our climber is using a ms440 with a 32 inch bar. He would start his cut on the six oclock side cutting up to three oclock with his bar tip and working his way around counter clockwise from three to six to nine until he reaches twelve on the back side ( choker side ) where he continues cutting past twelve to one two three and we have a safe lift off moving towards the crane and away from the climber, no chance of tearing or splitting for whatever reason, be it fouled spark plug or too much force exerted on the pick by an amateur crane operator, you as a smart climber have done your utmost to ensure your safety.

I hope this proven technique will be of use to those of you who choose to work with cranes and their inherent benefits and very real dangers.

Work Safe.

jomoco

 

[oldirty]

jomoco.

when making this cut you are describing are you backchaining or on the gut of the bar the whole time?

does this cut take you around the tree or can you make it from one side?

i like to cut towards the boom when i make my cuts and yes i also put a couple inch bite on the opposite side of the cut as well and get them to meet.

along with the over under to let it break on the cranes power so you can be away from the wood when it goes.

and of course every situation is different and calls for cuts to be made accordingly and all yes but a little more detail on your cut would be appreciated.

thanks



oldirty

 

[jomoco]

jomoco.

when making this cut you are describing are you backchaining or on the gut of the bar the whole time?

does this cut take you around the tree or can you make it from one side?

i like to cut towards the boom when i make my cuts and yes i also put a couple inch bite on the opposite side of the cut as well and get them to meet.

along with the over under to let it break on the cranes power so you can be away from the wood when it goes.

and of course every situation is different and calls for cuts to be made accordingly and all yes but a little more detail on your cut would be appreciated.

thanks



oldirty

Good questions Oldirty,

If I'm cutting a 48 inch dia. pick, yes I walk around it on my gaffs while cutting, and since I prefer to cut with the top of my bar and throw the sawdust away from me, I start cutting at three oclock and work my way around clockwise. But from a purely practical point of view the exact same effect can be obtained by starting at nine oclock cutting with the bottom of your bar and working your way around counter clockwise. It's pretty much a matter of preference or wind direction that determines which part of the bar I cut with and which way around the trunk I take.

The important thing to remember is to cut the pinch, fulcrum or craneside half of the the clock cut first so that you finish the cut on the backside, chokerside and the pick moves away from you and towards the crane with no chance of tearing or splitting because that side has already been cut.

I use this method regardless of wood dia. when my bodyline and lanyard are secured below the cut.

Heck I even use it on base picks with the crane to avoid binding or the use of wedges, time is money in production based commercial tree service.

This may be one of those situations where a picture or diagram is worth more than a page of words.

jomoco

 

[oldirty]

yup. i get what your saying.

i just wanted to be sure i was on the same page with you on that cut. (its in the bag o tricks)

are you gaffing around the tree while your cutn or do you stop the cut and reset yourself and then continue your cut?








oldirty

 

[lync]

Cutting big wood with crane

Olddirty you can stay tied onto the crane while you make the first part of the cuting sequence for support as you gaff around from 6 to 12 oclock. Then pull out your climbing line and make your finnishing cut after chocking the spar w/climbing line as a back up.

Corey

 

[jomoco]

yup. i get what your saying.

i just wanted to be sure i was on the same page with you on that cut. (its in the bag o tricks)

are you gaffing around the tree while your cutn or do you stop the cut and reset yourself and then continue your cut?

oldirty

No, particularly on large dia. wood I'll idle down keeping one hand on the saw while using the other to work my lanyard around as I gaff around, then cut some more with both hands ofcourse.

A straight cutting razor sharp saw will ensure that the cuts meet at the three or nine oclock lift off position with no chain binding.

jomoco

 

[oldirty]

i am liking this thread.

alright i have a question for those who ride the crane.

how many different cuts do we use. technique/name, whatever.

and what to you dictates where you set the choke. do you half hitch the choke (on a long strap) where the "bend" is in the wood to help keep the load stable? do you set the choker on the weighted sided to keep the work vertical? do you choke the nonweighted side to help move the work away from you?

obviously there are so many different ways to do things but i would love to discuss them and their scenarios.

i know i know obvious answers to these questions but i do kinda want to see who does what and how.

and not that i dont like the move lync, cause i do, but if your cutting while still "on the ball" does that mean you are not using a second tie in point?





oldirty

 

[jomoco]

i am liking this thread.

alright i have a question for those who ride the crane.

how many different cuts do we use. technique/name, whatever.

and what to you dictates where you set the choke. do you half hitch the choke (on a long strap) where the "bend" is in the wood to help keep the load stable? do you set the choker on the weighted sided to keep the work vertical? do you choke the nonweighted side to help move the work away from you?

obviously there are so many different ways to do things but i would love to discuss them and their scenarios.

i know i know obvious answers to these questions but i do kinda want to see who does what and how.

and not that i dont like the move lync, cause i do, but if your cutting while still "on the ball" does that mean you are not using a second tie in point?





oldirty

I like discussing different crane techniques also, but it might be more courteous to start a seperate thread entitled Crane use Techniques & Methods and go from there. RB had a good thread going before I started mouthing off in it. My apologies to RB if I derailed your thread (inadvertently).

jomoco

 

[rbtree]

jomoco, no problem... I just got home and only quickly browsed your comments. Interesting, and something I'll try. And read them more thoroughly later.

But my method has worked nearly flawlessly for me so far.....and I'm always tied to the stick being cut.

 

[rbtree]

Jomoco,

Well dang, I just reread your words that I quoted, and realize, that, even though I read them a couple times, they are the same thing as I do, pretty much anyhow!! Though I seldom cut the pinch side first or bother with a kerf cut.....Unless my bar has been too short to cut straight through.

 

[rbtree]

Hey there RB,

Bearing this in mind, if one choker is used and you want the pick to move away from you and towards the crane (center of gravity) you will want to position the single choker on the far side of the crane and have the hook just slightly off center with the pick in the direction of the crane, this ensures that the pick will move away from you and towards the crane in a graceful fluid motion after you make the cut. To achieve truly smooth picks, your ability to guesstimate the weight of each pick is important, and by communicating with the crane operator before and after each pick about your your preload instructions guesstimate versus the actual weight of the pick, you will get better at it with each pick.

Yup, exactly what I do. And, I'm usually able to guess within 10% of the weight, for getting the preset tension about right.

 

[rbtree]

Hey there RB,

However if you are working a pole down and both your bodyline and lanyard are secured below the cut point, I would caution you not to use a straight through cut, particularly when using large powerful cranes like a 120 hydro. If for any reason the cut can't be finished quickly and force is being applied to the pick, the danger of tear off or splitting is very real, along with the possibility serious injury to the climber.

The best way to avoid this danger is to start your cut on the pinch side, the fulcrum side, closest to the crane. then work your way around to the back side furthest away from the crane, the side where the single choker runs up to the hook to finish the cut.

This can easily be done with one circular cut. Imagine the cut from directly above as a clock face with the six oclock position towards or closest to the crane, the twelve oclock position is where the choker is positioned and runs up to the hook. We want the pick to move towards six oclock ( the crane).
Let's say the pick has a diameter of 48 inches or 4 ft. Our climber is using a ms440 with a 32 inch bar. He would start his cut on the six oclock side cutting up to three oclock with his bar tip and working his way around counter clockwise from three to six to nine until he reaches twelve on the back side ( choker side ) where he continues cutting past twelve to one two three and we have a safe lift off moving towards the crane and away from the climber, no chance of tearing or splitting for whatever reason, be it fouled spark plug or too much force exerted on the pick by an amateur crane operator, you as a smart climber have done your utmost to ensure your safety.

I hope this proven technique will be of use to those of you who choose to work with cranes and their inherent benefits and very real dangers.

Work Safe.

jomoco

As I said, straight through has always worked pretty well for me..... and have done similar to your sweep method when bar length has warranted. And have done pinch side kerf cuts a fair bit. But I'll be sure to use the sweep next time we crane. I can tell that it would always work well! Thanks!

 

[SWAMPY036]

I have been waiting I think at some point you said a video will follow