Another one handing a saw thread

[NCTREE]

I know we have all done this from time especially when pruning out a tree. My question is how many of you guys here one hand a saw when cutting the top out of a tree? Any stories of things that have gone wrong and lessons learned from doing so.

A couple years back I had a situation happen to me. I was up in this silver maple taking a top leader out. It was a windy day about a 25mph gusts coming through. I had just notch the top and was waiting for the wind to die down. The wind was blowing 90 degrees against the way I was dropping the the top. I was one handing the saw and hanging on to a branch with my left hand to stabalize myself. I started to cut my back cut and the wind picked up. It blew the top so that it pinched my saw and when it did so it pushed the saw into my other hand that I was holding on with slicing through my glove and cutting my pinky pretty good. If I hadn't been wearing my gloves I think it would have done alot more damage. Luckly I was able to come down bandage it up and finish the tree. It was a big lessoned learned one handing a saw when taking a top.

Another thing I noticed is when one handing a saw while taking the top is that if the ground guys don't let the top run the shock load can force your body/face toward the saw. If you are using two hands on the saw then you have more control of this.

 

[tree MDS]

Maybe the one handing should be left to the pro's.. just sayin..

:msp_tongue:

 

[treemandan]

I know we have all done this from time especially when pruning out a tree. My question is how many of you guys here one hand a saw when cutting the top out of a tree? Any stories of things that have gone wrong and lessons learned from doing so.

A couple years back I had a situation happen to me. I was up in this silver maple taking a top leader out. It was a windy day about a 25mph gusts coming through. I had just notch the top and was waiting for the wind to die down. The wind was blowing 90 degrees against the way I was dropping the the top. I was one handing the saw and hanging on to a branch with my left hand to stabalize myself. I started to cut my back cut and the wind picked up. It blew the top so that it pinched my saw and when it did so it pushed the saw into my other hand that I was holding on with slicing through my glove and cutting my pinky pretty good. If I hadn't been wearing my gloves I think it would have done alot more damage. Luckly I was able to come down bandage it up and finish the tree. It was a big lessoned learned one handing a saw when taking a top.

Another thing I noticed is when one handing a saw while taking the top is that if the ground guys don't let the top run the shock load can force your body/face toward the saw. If you are using two hands on the saw then you have more control of this.

I think the first accident could have been avoided with a pull rope or maybe just a better thought out hand/s positioning. Were you using a 20 for that? I mean that senerio is common where to have to use one hand but you have to weigh it all out before you go all Benny Han-nah with the Ginsu knife. Don't be to hard on yourself for that one but now you know. Some of the cuts we make are going to be a little risky like that and by putting both hands on the saw can leave you exposed to worse dangers like slipping into it with your face. Just make sure you take the time to plan and excute properly.
Sometimes I throw in another TIP of some kind for stability when dealing with a situation like you mentioned above. Maybe just a web strap choked to a little branch then hooked right to the saddle or use it as a hand hold. A lot of time guy's are wondering why I am setting another tip. You really have to take a little time and feel around for the best position on money cuts, nevermind anything else.

And by the time the rigging gets loaded your saw should be out of the way, shut off or have the brake on.

 

[NCTREE]

Maybe the one handing should be left to the pro's.. just sayin..

:msp_tongue:

Smart ass!:msp_sneaky:

Someday I hope to be a pro like you

 

[NCTREE]

I think the first accident could have been avoided with a pull rope or maybe just a better thought out hand/s positioning. Were you using a 20 for that? I mean that senerio is common where to have to use one hand but you have to weigh it all out before you go all Benny Han-nah with the Ginsu knife. Don't be to hard on yourself for that one but now you know. Some of the cuts we make are going to be a little risky like that and by putting both hands on the saw can leave you exposed to worse dangers like slipping into it with your face. Just make sure you take the time to plan and excute properly.
Sometimes I throw in another TIP of some kind for stability when dealing with a situation like you mentioned above. Maybe just a web strap choked to a little branch then hooked right to the saddle or use it as a hand hold. A lot of time guy's are wondering why I am setting another tip. You really have to take a little time and feel around for the best position on money cuts, nevermind anything else.

And by the time the rigging gets loaded your saw should be out of the way, shut off or have the brake on.

a tag line would have fixed the problem, i def use them on windy days now. I haven't had much problem with slipping or the face in the saw from two handing it. I can see though that if the tree gets shock load it could put you in a bad situation if the saw is not shut down or braked. I try to shut my saw off as soon as I see the top start going but it isn't always the case where you have little time to react.

 

[treeclimber101]

I one hand all day with a 20 , how else can you cut and throw , I got into the habit a while ago too hit the switch and cut the saw off as soon as I see the cut open up with tops , that way when I get slammed around I don't have to worry about getting cut , I have accidentally a few times in the past forgotten to kill the saw and squeezed the trigger instead of grabbing the tree , its just instinct to grab and squeeze when your off balance.. That is really scary for me , I can totally see how getting a saw to the hand or arm can happen I have hit my hand in the past and when I get tired I find myself hurrying and thats usually when it happens ...

 

[Natewood]

I was just up in a bunch of silvers today doing the same thing! The wind was pretty bad with gust up to 40mph. I very consciously understand my surroundings and take extra precautions for the wind and the fact that I dont work in those situations every day. You know what they say, prepare for the worst , hope for the best.

 

[Natewood]

kinda ballsy to bring up the one handing thing on this site though! I remember years ago when I was a member holy hell broke loose!

 

[treemandan]

kinda ballsy to bring up the one handing thing on this site though! I remember years ago when I was a member holy hell broke loose!

Most of the people who flame one handing are usually the ones who don't climb. But it is true some climbers are a little loose with the saws. Watching those guys is like watching someone roller skate in traffic.

 

[imagineero]

I agree with the above poster though - I one hand my 200t pretty mcuh 80% of the time while in the tree and every climber I've ever worked with does too. You do see guys straight out of climbing courses and greener than the trees they work on two handing every cut, and doing every other thing by the book too - 2 or 3 tie in points, 2 handed saw use, lowering every branch by rope etc. It is safer, no doubt... but then, those guys take 10 x as long to get a job done ;-)

There's no question that 2 handing a saw is safer than one handing. But then, if you use a saw safely you've got a pretty good margin there even one handed. If you've go a good understanding of the forces in play with saw work then you're ahead a good ways. I think a lot of guys state side are running 14 or 16" bars on their 200t's, and reaching *right out* and cutting with the tip, and when undercutting obviously they are well into kickback territory. I run a 12", wont use the tip or the push side of the saw one handed, only 2 hands for those ops. I do must pull cuts one handed though.

Shaun

 

[ducaticorse]

I agree with the above poster though - I one hand my 200t pretty mcuh 80% of the time while in the tree and every climber I've ever worked with does too. You do see guys straight out of climbing courses and greener than the trees they work on two handing every cut, and doing every other thing by the book too - 2 or 3 tie in points, 2 handed saw use, lowering every branch by rope etc. It is safer, no doubt... but then, those guys take 10 x as long to get a job done ;-)

There's no question that 2 handing a saw is safer than one handing. But then, if you use a saw safely you've got a pretty good margin there even one handed. If you've go a good understanding of the forces in play with saw work then you're ahead a good ways. I think a lot of guys state side are running 14 or 16" bars on their 200t's, and reaching *right out* and cutting with the tip, and when undercutting obviously they are well into kickback territory. I run a 12", wont use the tip or the push side of the saw one handed, only 2 hands for those ops. I do must pull cuts one handed though.

Shaun

Yeah, cuz that's what it was designed for. Whoever uses a 200T and doesn't ever use it one handed is full of ####. End of story.

 

[Saw Dust Smoken]

saw one hand

Yes, What he said!

 

[NCTREE]

I didn't start this with the intention of saying whether one handing a saw is wrong or right. I one hand my t200 alll the time. I was just pointing out a mistake I made while doing so to hopefully make people more aware of hand placement when sawing one handed.

I just thought my mistake could help others and may be some other would tell their stories. I not too proud to admit my mistakes if it keeps someone else safe.

 

[imagineero]

A couple years back I had a situation happen to me. I was up in this silver maple taking a top leader out. It was a windy day about a 25mph gusts coming through. I had just notch the top and was waiting for the wind to die down. The wind was blowing 90 degrees against the way I was dropping the the top. I was one handing the saw and hanging on to a branch with my left hand to stabalize myself. I started to cut my back cut and the wind picked up. It blew the top so that it pinched my saw and when it did so it pushed the saw into my other hand that I was holding on with slicing through my glove and cutting my pinky pretty good. If I hadn't been wearing my gloves I think it would have done alot more damage. Luckly I was able to come down bandage it up and finish the tree. It was a big lessoned learned one handing a saw when taking a top.

Another thing I noticed is when one handing a saw while taking the top is that if the ground guys don't let the top run the shock load can force your body/face toward the saw. If you are using two hands on the saw then you have more control of this.

It sounds like there was plenty of room for improvement there....

First off, I'm going to assume you were on spikes, and had at least a pole strap/flipline and hopefully a rope as well. When I'm topping, I try to top small, and i do climb high. Taking big tops is something you can do if you've got a good ground crew, good conditions, and plenty of experience, but if you're taking big tops because you're freaked out by climbing above, say, 4" diameter trunks then you probably shouldn't be up there.

Most times I climb right up there and take it small, to the point I could most times hand hold the top. If conditions are good for taking a big top, or for whatever reason it's necessary then I stand 90degrees to the direction of fall and spike in real good. I do a full wrap on my flipline, and often will tie in with the rope as well as a backup. I lean back on my strap, so I'm fully planted and very stable. It sounds like you weren't planted if you needed to be ballancing yourself with your hand. This is a bad start in windy conditions when topping.

If I know I'm going to be taking a ride, I spike in really good with my right spike, and bring my left knee up into the trunk. I adjust my flipline so Im taied in good and can use the knee to brace myself. I learnt this from an AS'er and it works real good on hairy rides. I make sure the pull rope is tied in real high, then get my ground crew on the rope. They (obviously) don't pull on the rope when I'm notching, but they do have a little practice pull just to see how far they can pull the top over, especially if it's a big back leaner.

I do the notch, then get them to start pulling. If it's a snappy top then I'll back cut pretty far then have them bring the pull on gradual. If its a nice top then they just start pulling early as I'm back cutting. A lot depends on species and conditions, sometimes you really want to pop that top right off the tree, sometimes you want to fold it over then let it go. Only experience or a good teacher will help you there.

The stuff you were saying about the saw being pinched but still cutting your hand doesnt make a lot of sense.

Shaun

 

[NCTREE]

The stuff you were saying about the saw being pinched but still cutting your hand doesnt make a lot of sense.

Shaun

Maybe I didn't explain it right. The wind was blowing 90 degrees to the side of where my notch was. I started cutting with my hand holding on a branch that was at the same level that my backcut was. The saw tip was six inches away from my hand, As the wind blew the top it was enough to pinch the corner of the back cut closest to me. I was still sawing when this happened so the pinch and the momentum of the chain moving thrusted my saw forward into my hand. As it hit my hand I was just letting my finger of the trigger so it was coming to a stop on my hand. The glove save me from loosing a finger and maybe worse. This is the best way I can describe it, hope it helps.

 

[treeclimber101]

I didn't start this with the intention of saying whether one handing a saw is wrong or right. I one hand my t200 alll the time. I was just pointing out a mistake I made while doing so to hopefully make people more aware of hand placement when sawing one handed.

I just thought my mistake could help others and may be some other would tell their stories. I not too proud to admit my mistakes if it keeps someone else safe.

Well your a brave man saying your not perfect here , most get castrated and beheaded with there head on full display in the town square , but I can admit that I love to run with one hand and I have cut my hands , I almost cut my arm because I was reaching over my left arm with a saw out of laziness and I don't know how many times I have hit my boot with a saw while aimlessly reaching for a sucker or a branch that I may be standing on , LOL thats what happens ....

 

[flushcut]

I guess I have been lucky that I have not had any close calls. I think one handing is a skill that all tree guys should know.

 

[RacerX]

Two handed cutting, like all safe working practices (two handing, multiple TIPS, PPE) were born out of people getting injured. Bottom line is that one handed cutting, even with a top handle saw increases you risk for injury or worse. Having said that I know that we've all done it. Personally I try to avoid it as much as possible. In some instances one handing is just a substitute for repositioning and is caused by trying to hurry or just being lazy.

 

[squad143]

Two handed cutting, like all safe working practices (two handing, multiple TIPS, PPE) were born out of people getting injured. Bottom line is that one handed cutting, even with a top handle saw increases you risk for injury or worse. Having said that I know that we've all done it. Personally I try to avoid it as much as possible. In some instances one handing is just a substitute for repositioning and is caused by trying to hurry or just being lazy.

:agree2:
Good post. Couldn't agree more.
I'm guilty of "one handing it", and more times than not, its for production.

 

[PinnaclePete]

Done it, do it, but it's a choice made in the moment and not my SOP. Like everything else, it is a personal choice and no one gets hurt except the cutter.

Unless your groundies have to rescue your bleeding self, or your loved ones have to deal with your pain, downtime, unemployment and possibly worse.

But still its a personal choice............. And its good fodder to keep the injuries thread going.