Dilemma....Echo 70cc vs Clone 90cc saw. What would you do?

[bwalker]

Bwalker said...

"The truth is, saws are, all things considered a cheap hobby for most of us."

Ain't that the everlovin' truth!!

O.K.... Hands up, how many don't bat an eye over dropping 40 K + on a new pick em up truck, but wring their hands over a difference of a couple of hundred bucks or less, between two saws? " .. C'mon.. really, if you're cutting for bucks, a couple of hundred bucks is irrelevant ... get what cuts fast , balanced against what feels best in your hands. Taking down small stuff? Sure the Echo 590 would be faster that the 355T, but for me, I'd rather have the light weight of the 355T, than the speed of the Timber Wolf, if cutting all day.

Personally, I've never been disappointed, when I've bought ( arguably ), the best. I bought a high end Harmon Kardon stereo, decades ago. The cost of ownership for something I truly enjoyed was around 5 cents an hour, or less.

My "other" favourite for stuff is " great bang for the buck ".. which would explain my new Echo purchases . It would also explain buying my classic Stihl saws from Municipal auctions, for example, a perfect running 362 for $125.00 CDN. My Av 038 was under $100.00 CDN., also from a municipal auction.

Yup, for sure, right now I have about 9 saws, down from 15 -16 when I was working and then downsized when retiring. Realistically, I could get by with three, or maybe four... But, as I can easily afford to indulge what is now a hobby, Why would I.

40K is damn cheap for a truck now days.
I know of a guy that just bought a king ranch superduty diesel. No idea what He paid, but I woukd guess the sticker.price was in the 90k range. Yet the cheap wastage is running a clapped out 044 with a chicom short block and few other misc pieces.

 

[bwalker]

How many angels can dance on a pinhead?

Well, it can be measured. Why do you think Echos cost less? Not because they are the equal of a husky or stihl.

 

[Charlie Coyote]

Ok...so I had a couple of big (30"+ diameter) oaks fall out in my back pasture a few weeks ago. I tried making some cuts on them with my old Poulan 50cc saw with 20" bar, and it does it...but good lord is it slow. It's something like 5min just to get one cut through it.

I've been thinking about getting a bigger saw (all I have are saws that are 50cc and smaller)...and I think I can finally justify it with the job I've got to do on these big oaks. I told myself I didn't want to spend more than $1,000 on a new saw. Was thinking about a 590 or 620...but I think those will be too small for what I want to do. That being said.......

...after lots of research, and calling around to my local dealers...this is what I've come up with.

1. Pick up one of the Echo 7310 (73.5cc) saws with a 28" bar at the local dealer here in the next few weeks when they have their 15% off sale for $935.

2. OR...save some money, pick up one of the 90cc Farmertec/Neotec 660 clone saws with a 32-36" bar on it for around $450.

On one hand....that 90cc saw should hog through those oak trees, on the other hand...I've heard that the clones have some parts that wear out fast and cause issues (no surprise)...but I would be saving almost $500.

But...even though the echo is smaller, it's probably going to last me forever with the amount of use I'm going to put it through......I've heard it's a solid saw, and it's got a 5yr warranty. But.....I'm paying $500 more for a saw that's not going to get used much after it cuts up these oaks.

SO....considering what I need to do with it....would you buy a smaller 70cc saw that's better quality, with a 5yr warranty....but spend an extra $500+.........or save all that money and buy a big 90cc that might not be as reliable, might need some extra maintenance, might not last as long...but just hog through that oak tree with an even bigger bar?

I've watched a lot of videos on those clone saws....and for the most part, that seem like a pretty good deal as long as you aren't afraid of tuning the carb and doing some some basic part replacement if needed. But, there is still a change you are going to get one with issues right out of the box.

What would you do? Buy the 7310, or a 660 clone?

I bought two new saws 2 years ago. The Echo CS620PW 28" 60cc 4.5 hp and Farmertec G660 Pro 90cc 7 hp 36". I have used both to buck 32"-40" knotty pine and I can tell you that as good as the Echo is it struggled, but the G660 Pro was sufficient and I think is what you'll need for that big oak. The 660 consumes twice the fuel and had issues out of the box. The Pro is the way to go, but here's the skinny. Just like the Stihl MS660 the oiler on high won't be enough for any bar past 24", so I installed an aftermarket H.O. pump ($25). The arm on the oiler spring was so long that it cut a groove in the casing, so replaced that ($12). The chain adjuster is made poorly and must be replaced ($17). With those tha saw does what it should. I buy Oregon bars and chains and have run both on straight hi-test and VP Synthetic at 40:1 since new. As usual they wake up slowly through about 10 tanks. I ran slightly rich until that point and then retuned the high to a 4 stroke burble when I let up in a cut with the bar buried. Max performance and long life. Cost of Echo CS620PW $725 and 660 Pro $590 with bar and chains. You will need multiple sharp chains and to keep them sharp.

 

[Chucksta]

As Bwalker said...

"Why do you think Echos cost less? Not because they are the equal of a husky or stihl."

Hmmmmm... I don't know about that.

I think all three brands are equal in one metric... " Bang For The Buck " As in you get what you pay for.

Yup... Echo saws cost less ( on average), per C.C.. than the other two.. Are they as good? Arguably not.

But on a value for dollar scale, they are pretty close. ( IMHO)

There's got to be a reason that my Stihl 362, is worth more used than Echo 590 is new..

 

[bwalker]

As Bwalker said...

"Why do you think Echos cost less? Not because they are the equal of a husky or stihl."

Hmmmmm... I don't know about that.

I think all three brands are equal in one metric... " Bang For The Buck " As in you get what you pay for.

Yup... Echo saws cost less ( on average), per C.C.. than the other two.. Are they as good? Arguably not.

But on a value for dollar scale, they are pretty close. ( IMHO)

There's got to be a reason that my Stihl 362, is worth more used than Echo 590 is new..

Yep, you get what you pay for.

 

[FXJenkins]

If most guys tried to pencil out their saw purchases they wouldn't be here.
The truth is, saws are, all things considered a cheap hobby for most of us. That's why a few hundred less for an Echo makes about zero sense to me, but I also am of the school of thought that says I would rather have 1 or 2 topend pieces vs. A pile of lesser stuff.

you can't argue with this....

 

[Jonny Quest]

One can purchase a 372XP from BaileysOnline.com for $1,000 & change. I have one little Echo 355T -- and I love it. So, I have no complaints with Echo. However, my Husqvarna 372XP is a damn fine saw and perhaps the best all-around saw I've ever used. Stihl makes fine saws, but my personal preference is more Swedish instead of German. Ford vs. Chevy. Republican vs. Democrat.

JQ

 

[Ed Penney]

A surprise came my way. Built a clone to sell and guess what I got to discount the price $100 a straight gassed older 460 real deal saw. Broke in the clone for him, it does pretty well.

 

[diver64]

Echo 7310 is a lifetime saw if you so choose, do you plan to own it that long? The quality is top notch with that legendary Echo reliability. Keep ethanol free fuel circulated in there and it will serve you forever with no problems. Can the same be said for a Chinese knock off? I don't think so.

If you have any pride in owning nice things, it's the 7310 hands down. I was in the same predicament actually and chose the 7310 over a clone, and never looked back. It's still improving after 10 tanks and a carb tune!

I was at a local dealer today getting some pull cord and he had a couple of 7310's in boxes gathering dust. He was hinting he would take a decent offer on them if one was made but I didn't know what that would be so got the cord and left.

 

[OM617YOTA]

I was at a local dealer today getting some pull cord and he had a couple of 7310's in boxes gathering dust. He was hinting he would take a decent offer on them if one was made but I didn't know what that would be so got the cord and left.

Shoot, I would have asked what he had in mind, even if I didn't have a number in mind. I don't need a 7310 but if the price was right I'd have flipped them.

 

[diver64]

Shoot, I would have asked what he had in mind, even if I didn't have a number in mind. I don't need a 7310 but if the price was right I'd have flipped them.

I have to go back for an air filter he had to order. I might feel him out on both saws.

 

[Sidecarflip]

I went down the Chinese cheap saw route as well.

I ran over my Stihl top handle Arborist saw with the bucket truck and destroyed it and I didn't wan to shell out another 700 bucks for a new one so I ordered a Neotech Chinese top handle from Amascon for cheap with the hopes it would replace the expensive Stihl and I was wrong. It was a turd saw. Cheap Chinese saws are just that, cheap and crappy. Hard to start, hard to keep running and overall just crappy.

I gave it away in the end to the guy across the road and bought an Echo CS top handle short bar arborist saw. Was under half the cost of the Stihl and it starts and runs peachy. I did replace the CAT muffler with a non CAT muffler from Saw It Again for 35 bucks. Made a huge difference in power output. It appears as though Echo does offer a non CAT muffler for them in as much as the replacement muff is an Echo part and unlike the CAT muffler that runs hot and tends to melt the plastic overshield, the replacement muff don't run hot enough to melt it (which was the big complaint on the Echo website I might add.

Once broken in, it has all the suds the Stihl had. Of course I removed the limiter caps and filed off the limiter tabs so I could tune it correctly as Echo tends to tune them lean from the factory.

Nice little saw I use a lot. Perfect one hander, very light, even lighter than the Stihl was. Even comes with the required lanyard ring on the backend. Only takes one pull or maybe a second pull to start it

From my perspective, the Stihl Arborist top handle is over priced but then all Stihl's are overpriced today

 

[huskihl]

As an aside, depending on what you can get the echo for, you could always get into a new 372 0E from Malaysia. Reputable seller that ships them here for about $950

 

[EchoShindaiwaMakitaDolmar]

I just read the whole thread and gotta say I can't believe people even consider the clone junk when they're not truly poor! Do you wanna be able to easily start a saw and reliably cut wood (Echo/Shindaiwa, Makita/Dolmar, Stihl, Husqvarna/Johnsered) or spend a lot of time troubleshooting and adjusting just to get a POS clone running?!

The easy button is the Echo 7310p and do a muffler mod and tune. Or, find a NOS Makita 7900 and do MM and tune, or a clean used Makita/Dolmar 7900. Or a clean used Stihl or Husky in the same CC range. If a clean used saw doesn't already have a MM, do one and then tune it.

There are way too many well maintained, clean used pro saws on these forums to ever justify buying a clone.

 

[diver64]

I went down the Chinese cheap saw route as well.

I ran over my Stihl top handle Arborist saw with the bucket truck and destroyed it and I didn't wan to shell out another 700 bucks for a new one so I ordered a Neotech Chinese top handle from Amascon for cheap with the hopes it would replace the expensive Stihl and I was wrong. It was a turd saw. Cheap Chinese saws are just that, cheap and crappy. Hard to start, hard to keep running and overall just crappy.

I gave it away in the end to the guy across the road and bought an Echo CS top handle short bar arborist saw. Was under half the cost of the Stihl and it starts and runs peachy. I did replace the CAT muffler with a non CAT muffler from Saw It Again for 35 bucks. Made a huge difference in power output. It appears as though Echo does offer a non CAT muffler for them in as much as the replacement muff is an Echo part and unlike the CAT muffler that runs hot and tends to melt the plastic overshield, the replacement muff don't run hot enough to melt it (which was the big complaint on the Echo website I might add.

Once broken in, it has all the suds the Stihl had. Of course I removed the limiter caps and filed off the limiter tabs so I could tune it correctly as Echo tends to tune them lean from the factory.

Nice little saw I use a lot. Perfect one hander, very light, even lighter than the Stihl was. Even comes with the required lanyard ring on the backend. Only takes one pull or maybe a second pull to start it

From my perspective, the Stihl Arborist top handle is over priced but then all Stihl's are overpriced today

As I've often said, a Chinese saw is great for homeowners occasional use or someone that wants to take one apart on the cheap to see how it runs and how to fix one but is not the best choice for a commercial business. I've had pretty good luck with them myself but I'd not take one into the woods as my primary saw to make money.

 

[CJ1]

Almost every time I have went the Chinese route it has burned my butt. I tried the cheap Lithium batteries as all of them have chinese cells anyway and 3 out of 6 have failed and 2 of them they did not stand behind their warranty. So needless to say, no more of that crap. From now on I will do a in depth search of the parent company before purchase. It seems they make at least 4 different brands of batteries and only 1 that I have used is worth a darn. Not very good business practice but what should we expect. CJ

 

[LuDookie]

As an aside, depending on what you can get the echo for, you could always get into a new 372 0E from Malaysia. Reputable seller that ships them here for about $950

Nothing wrong with the Echo but the 372 OE for that price is what I’d do. I even paid more for mine and would do it again.

 

[bwalker]

I just read the whole thread and gotta say I can't believe people even consider the clone junk when they're not truly poor! Do you wanna be able to easily start a saw and reliably cut wood (Echo/Shindaiwa, Makita/Dolmar, Stihl, Husqvarna/Johnsered) or spend a lot of time troubleshooting and adjusting just to get a POS clone running?!

The easy button is the Echo 7310p and do a muffler mod and tune. Or, find a NOS Makita 7900 and do MM and tune, or a clean used Makita/Dolmar 7900. Or a clean used Stihl or Husky in the same CC range. If a clean used saw doesn't already have a MM, do one and then tune it.

There are way too many well maintained, clean used pro saws on these forums to ever justify buying a clone.

I agree.
Except the part about Makita/Dolmar. At this point you woukd have to be nuts to buy one. Stocking parts when they were a going concern was problematic for Dolmar. Now that they aren't making saws good luck.

 

[Cliff R]

Really no decision for me. I absolutely REFUSE to buy any Chinese or low quality imported crap when it comes to this sort of thing. I've spent my entire life surrounding myself with the very best quality power equipment than money can buy and I could afford. Every single time I've went on the "cheap" it's been nothing but a lesson in humility.

Recently retiring from working on power equipment in out shop for more than forty years I can say this without hesitation, all that Chinese stuff is crap and it has no place in this industry. Despite the urge to venture into cheap P/C's and $10 clone carburetors I stuck with OEM all the years we were in business. The few times I got weak and tried anything less I got singed pretty hard.

I completely understand and it's OK for those who love to go on the cheap and have the time to deal with all the drama involved with that decision. I for one want to spend ALL my time cutting firewood and zero time dinking around with equipment that doesn't make the grade.

I'll also mention that in these parts trees at or beyond about 30" diameter are rare enough I don't cater my line-up to that sort of thing. If/when I run into something that big I'll pull out my 480CD with 30" bar or swap the 30" bar on to the 268XPS. Both get the job done just fine with a good sharp skip chain. Once I'm done with the big work out comes my 590, 600P or 620PW to finish things up. In most cases it's the CS-590 simply because I'm trying to see if I can "kill" it, but it just keeps on ticking even though I've logged at least a zillion hours on it at this point.

Yep, below is how I deal with logs over 30". I cut them about 12" long and cross cut them with the CS-590 into smaller pieces so we can manage them to the splitter. On the big maple below those pieces were still heavy enough to crush you so we were very careful manipulating them around till we got them cut to a size we could work with.

........