Anybody contract with a mill?

[Gypo Logger]

Cutting some keepers is a big rush. Green gold rush. There's a funny story about that black cherry butt log, remind me to tell you about it sometime.Lol
John

 

[Gypo Logger]

Am I talking to myself around here! Lol
If we manage our wood a bit better whe could have better and bigger trees forever.
Irregardless, trees are glorified grass and if you want carrots you have weed your garden

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

What is the orange paint for?

 

[bitzer]

But yer not weeding yer garden when you do it that way John. Yer just pulling the carrots. Twenty years ago a guy might have been able to cut a very few select few trees around here, but people want max dollar out of their woods now. That means 60-70 percent basal area when yoy are done. Get some light in to let things grow. The majority of them also want pulp out. Its a few extra bucks to them and it cleans up the woods some. They also want money in hand before you step foot in the woods. The only landowners that approach me to cut timber and are willing to do shares have been turned down by the mills already or they think their timber is worth a fortune. I've had very few approach me that actually have decent timber that want to cut out the middle man. Thats the state of affairs in SE WI right now anyway. Timber is not all that easy to buy anymore. A lot of mandatory harvests thru MFL. I don't doubt that it was possible to only cut the pumpkins out, but good luck now. At least around here. You were cutting in Michigan right?

So if you only have a half dozen trees to cut in each woods you must have had about 200 landowners lined up? Just to stay busy every working day of the year I mean.

 

[Bwildered]

View attachment 431288 Cutting some keepers is a big rush. Green gold rush. There's a funny story about that black cherry butt log, remind me to tell you about it sometime.LolView attachment 431287
John

You must have been doing ok, your friend had a fair amount of bling for an outing to the log dump.
Thansk

 

[1270d]

View attachment 431288 Cutting some keepers is a big rush. Green gold rush. There's a funny story about that black cherry butt log, remind me to tell you about it sometime.LolView attachment 431287
John

Weird, this whole time I thought you were a guy.

 

[Gypo Logger]

What is the orange paint for?

The orange paint is there to differentiate the veneer from the saw logs so that the log trucker can sort with no mistake.
No veneer goes to a sawmill or they just flip them. Its all about marketing and keeping away from the middle man.
Selling to the horses mouth is much more lucrative.

 

[Gypo Logger]

Weird, this whole time I thought you were a guy.

I thought I was a guy too, but I just took a look and it appears I have some arbitrary genitalia. Lol

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

The orange paint is there to differentiate the veneer from the saw logs so that the log trucker can sort with no mistake.
No veneer goes to a sawmill or just they just flip them. Its all about marketing and keeping away from the middle man.
Selling to the horses mouth is much more lucrative.

Interesting. Don't have really have sawmills around here aside from small setups like what we have here at the shop (Woodmizer LT40).... we do the whole thing, log, haul and make lumber or firewood out of the logs so no need to mark anything.

 

[Gypo Logger]

But yer not weeding yer garden when you do it that way John. Yer just pulling the carrots. Twenty years ago a guy might have been able to cut a very few select few trees around here, but people want max dollar out of their woods now. That means 60-70 percent basal area when yoy are done. Get some light in to let things grow. The majority of them also want pulp out. Its a few extra bucks to them and it cleans up the woods some. They also want money in hand before you step foot in the woods. The only landowners that approach me to cut timber and are willing to do shares have been turned down by the mills already or they think their timber is worth a fortune. I've had very few approach me that actually have decent timber that want to cut out the middle man. Thats the state of affairs in SE WI right now anyway. Timber is not all that easy to buy anymore. A lot of mandatory harvests thru MFL. I don't doubt that it was possible to only cut the pumpkins out, but good luck now. At least around here. You were cutting in Michigan right?

So if you only have a half dozen trees to cut in each woods you must have had about 200 landowners lined up? Just to stay busy every working day of the year I mean.

I seldom went in for less than 20 trees or 10,000 ft which is a good truckload. Most of my logging was on the Niagara Escarpment 60 miles north of Toronto, population 8 million?
I logged maybe a 1000 acres there and i can hear it growing from here.
As long as we dont over cut we can go back on a regular basis. That 1000 acres would keep me going a lifetime.
At some point a precommercial cut is in order.
I was in an area where most loggers respected another mans territory if they knew what was good for them. Lol
One bush story I like is I offered a woodlot owner 13,758.65 for 40 trees + veneer, so after the cut I owed him 25,000 cash. We sat down over a beer and I handed him the 25 grand. Then he tells me a mill came around before I showed up and offered him 3500. Turned out it was his mothers timber.

 

[bitzer]

I'm sure they're saving it for you. Thats exactly what they would do here. Oh thats John's timber. That guy that moved to Alaska? Yep. We better leave it alone then. Yep.

 

[Gypo Logger]

I'm sure they're saving it for you. Thats exactly what they would do here. Oh thats John's timber. That guy that moved to Alaska? Yep. We better leave it alone then. Yep.

Sometimes you become friends with people you buy timber off of. So at least 100 acres are the way I left them.
Plus, Im good at finding it. And finding loggers who timber tresspass in my neck of the woods. Lol

 

[earache]

Wood cutter, looks like your thread got hijacked. If you do really good work, have a good reputation, I'd push the mill a little higher on the rates. Timber producers are getting harder and harder to find. Especially over in your neck of the woods with the hills and the limited pulp markets. Bitzer is a GREAT source of info for you as he has a real similar setup. I have subbed for a mill from time to time, but my operation is a little different. I have a shortwood mechanized operation, processor, double bunk forwarder, log truck). Typically when I sub for a mill, its a pulp mill, and they pay a certain rate per job roadside. If its a mill job, they usually take care of the time spent with the landowner, running lines, filing cutting notices, invasive species recon and control, marketing, marking trees, and often most importantly, they take care of woods road work. Trucking will usually be taken care of by the mill if its a sawmill job. If its a pulp job, they may cover trucking, but will tell me the rate in case I want to find my own trucker, or truck it myself. Those rates again vary. Subbing can be real good for you if your good and keep the mill and landowners satisfied, as the mills tend to bid higher than I can on stumpage and will want to keep you busy year round. Can really stabilize your business. As far as a middleman, there aren't many, if any, around here. The mill buys the stumpage from the landowner, puts a cutter in there. That's it. Its a really tough businessAs far as knowing if the rate their paying you is fair, there are just too many variables to say one way or the other. You need to know your costs, and what it will cost you in equipment and time to do a job. Then decide if you can do it at $135/thousand and take the pulp.

 

[056kid]

Gypo, can you show me a 10,000' load? I dont doubt you.
Listen to this though, my current boss has been inc. For decades, not a dumb guy, mostly illiterate though. Anyhow, he can't hardly get 5,000 on a tractor & trailer grossing 83,000. Talking good logs stacked nice. Ive never scaled a load prior to them doing it, but he has to be getting screwed..

Oh yeah,"irregardless" not a word..

 

[bitzer]

Just a heads up I heard a mill over that way promising high pay but not delivering. Some guys still waiting to get paid from last winter. I'm not sure if its that one and there is usually some truth to a rumor like that.

 

[bitzer]

Gypo, can you show me a 10,000' load? I dont doubt you.
Listen to this though, my current boss has been inc. For decades, not a dumb guy, mostly illiterate though. Anyhow, he can't hardly get 5,000 on a tractor & trailer grossing 83,000. Talking good logs stacked nice. Ive never scaled a load prior to them doing it, but he has to be getting screwed..

Oh yeah,"irregardless" not a word..

In upper Michigan they haul crazy loads like that. Lots of axles on those trucks. 1270d has some pics of 10-12mbf loads if I remember correctly. The most I've seen on a load here was 6500mbf. He had all oak on. I bet he was at least 20k overweight.

 

[bitzer]

Wood cutter, looks like your thread got hijacked. If you do really good work, have a good reputation, I'd push the mill a little higher on the rates. Timber producers are getting harder and harder to find. Especially over in your neck of the woods with the hills and the limited pulp markets. Bitzer is a GREAT source of info for you as he has a real similar setup. I have subbed for a mill from time to time, but my operation is a little different. I have a shortwood mechanized operation, processor, double bunk forwarder, log truck). Typically when I sub for a mill, its a pulp mill, and they pay a certain rate per job roadside. If its a mill job, they usually take care of the time spent with the landowner, running lines, filing cutting notices, invasive species recon and control, marketing, marking trees, and often most importantly, they take care of woods road work. Trucking will usually be taken care of by the mill if its a sawmill job. If its a pulp job, they may cover trucking, but will tell me the rate in case I want to find my own trucker, or truck it myself. Those rates again vary. Subbing can be real good for you if your good and keep the mill and landowners satisfied, as the mills tend to bid higher than I can on stumpage and will want to keep you busy year round. Can really stabilize your business. As far as a middleman, there aren't many, if any, around here. The mill buys the stumpage from the landowner, puts a cutter in there. That's it. Its a really tough businessAs far as knowing if the rate their paying you is fair, there are just too many variables to say one way or the other. You need to know your costs, and what it will cost you in equipment and time to do a job. Then decide if you can do it at $135/thousand and take the pulp.

What kind of double bunk did you get? I think last time we talked you were looking for one. Sooner or later I will be in a set up like yours. I make decent money now, but I'm not going to be able to hand cut forever. There is quite a bit of wood I could knock down with a machine, but theres also enough big timber to satisfy me.

 

[056kid]

Haha that ticket would have been quite a prize! The mill we cut for was just bought by northwest hardwoods. Previousely known as Shenandoah hardwoods. Those guys had more tricks to get $ than you would imagine. I guess northwest hardwoods they are out of the pnw. Nobody here jas a clue.. the loader operator basically asked me if the northwest was indeed in the northwest...

 

[1270d]

This scaled 12000 something.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[earache]

What kind of double bunk did you get? I think last time we talked you were looking for one. Sooner or later I will be in a set up like yours. I make decent money now, but I'm not going to be able to hand cut forever. There is quite a bit of wood I could knock down with a machine, but theres also enough big timber to satisfy me.

That's why I do both man. Last year out of 100% of the wood I sold, 60% was logs and bolts. So, my chainsaw time is still pretty high relative to other mechanized pulpers. I like the break it gives me from the cab. Im on my third double bunk! Valmet, Timberjack, Ponsse...