Arborists charge too much for tree work!!!!

[MS TreeMonkey]

It's been awhile - and i remember why!

Flippity dippity do. I haven't logged onto this site for over 6 months and now i remember why. I get so sick of the "arborists" calling the others (myself included) a hack! it's so 3 yr oldish. I try to provide a service for customers in my local area at a fair price. They don't want to pay $1100 bucks to take down a 100ft pine tree next to the house. Well,.... forget it. No use in explaining myself. I guess you "arborists" will always have us hacks to make fun of - but i know i'll sleep alot better at night knowing i didn't "stick it to somebody." I'm outta here.:angry2:

 

[ropensaddle]

Flippity dippity do. I haven't logged onto this site for over 6 months and now i remember why. I get so sick of the "arborists" calling the others (myself included) a hack! it's so 3 yr oldish. I try to provide a service for customers in my local area at a fair price. They don't want to pay $1100 bucks to take down a 100ft pine tree next to the house. Well,.... forget it. No use in explaining myself. I guess you "arborists" will always have us hacks to make fun of - but i know i'll sleep alot better at night knowing i didn't "stick it to somebody." I'm outta here.:angry2:

Ok if you think that is sticking it to someone why don't you go
legitimate pay insurance,license,advertising etc. 100 ft pine
that is way too low if cleaned up and if tricky too low to piece
down! I am not calling you a hack I don't know you but for you
to better understand you need to enjoy the cost of being in
business rather than shooting off your mouth to people that are.
I will tell you the fines for doing business without the proper license
are astonishingly high.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Ok if you think that is sticking it to someone why don't you go legitimate pay insurance,license,advertising etc. 100 ft pine that is way too low if cleaned up and if tricky too low to piece down!

So let's say it takes 6 hrs for that pine to come down and get cleaned up and hauled away, and there is a 3 man crew at $60/mhr

(60*3)*6=1080

And you still have to dispose of the wood.

 

[ropensaddle]

So let's say it takes 6 hrs for that pine to come down and get cleaned up and hauled away, and there is a 3 man crew at $60/mhr

(60*3)*6=1080

And you still have to dispose of the wood.

Ok feller I have seen many large pines here that six hours
let just say there aint no superman and I don't pay all the
money to be legit to make nothing. A hundred foot pine here
in tight quarters will be forty to fifty inch diameter at fifty
feet tall and if care must be taken to bring it down I am
not going to put estimate that causes a rush job.Also
cleanup will take longer than six hours I don't know
how you figure your jobs but I would rather be adequate
to cover risk and time.

 

[clearance]

I have cut down many pines (this province is in the midst of a pine beetle epidemic). I don't think it has taken me more than an hour to put any one of them on the ground. Of course I just strip and chunk if I can't fall it. The lady was not too specific, details, details please.

 

[ropensaddle]

I have cut down many pines (this province is in the midst of a pine beetle epidemic). I don't think it has taken me more than an hour to put any one of them on the ground. Of course I just strip and chunk if I can't fall it. The lady was not too specific, details, details please.

Said it was by the house here in my area means flower gardens
gazebos and sod I would like to see some of the ones I do done
safely and without damage in one hour:hmm3grin2orange:
Clearance bc woods is way different than mainstream America!

 

[MS TreeMonkey]

Okay - i wasn't going to log back on, but curiosity got the best of me. For the record, i Do have a 1 million dollar liability policy, 2 men on the ground, I don't advertise (other than yard signs) because i get more work than i can handle by word of mouth. I've been told several times that i do a much better clean up job than the local certified arborist. He usually works by himself and charges nearly double of what i do. I climb everything (
and no i don't buy the brown rope from Home Depot)- don't own a bucket - have a 91 model 250 bandit chipper, LX665 New Holland skid steer, dump trailer and a 98 model dodge cummins to pull it all with. Oh yeah, i got 4 huskies and one Solo top handle that i just bought and don't really know if i like!

Back to the tree - I have cut 3 almost just like this before. Yes it is about 8 feet from a house with nowhere to throw it. Everything will come down on a rope - I will have to block down approx 4ft long pieces of the main stem so my groundies can handle it without too much trouble. Once i get it down to about 40 feet, i can drop the whole thing. As for the wood - we have a recycling center here where we dump for free and they shred and sell the pulp to a local mill. I will try to give you a report when i finish up today and let you know the time frame. My prediction is 3.5 hrs. so, if 6 hrs = 1080 then 3.5 is about 600 - Well, i'm charging 450 and giving the homeowner a break because this is the 2nd tree i've cut for him and i have another just down the street (close enough to drive my skid steer to). Not to mention he gave his dad my name and i did a $2200 job for him last year.

I'm not trying to cause a big ruckus, i just had to vent - sorry.

 

[MS TreeMonkey]

Oh, and clearance - MS stands for Mississippi, not misses!!!! I'm hung just like you are bud! hahha

 

[ropensaddle]

Okay - i wasn't going to log back on, but curiosity got the best of me. For the record, i Do have a 1 million dollar liability policy, 2 men on the ground, I don't advertise (other than yard signs) because i get more work than i can handle by word of mouth. I've been told several times that i do a much better clean up job than the local certified arborist. He usually works by himself and charges nearly double of what i do. I climb everything (
and no i don't buy the brown rope from Home Depot)- don't own a bucket - have a 91 model 250 bandit chipper, LX665 New Holland skid steer, dump trailer and a 98 model dodge cummins to pull it all with. Oh yeah, i got 4 huskies and one Solo top handle that i just bought and don't really know if i like!

Back to the tree - I have cut 3 almost just like this before. Yes it is about 8 feet from a house with nowhere to throw it. Everything will come down on a rope - I will have to block down approx 4ft long pieces of the main stem so my groundies can handle it without too much trouble. Once i get it down to about 40 feet, i can drop the whole thing. As for the wood - we have a recycling center here where we dump for free and they shred and sell the pulp to a local mill. I will try to give you a report when i finish up today and let you know the time frame. My prediction is 3.5 hrs. so, if 6 hrs = 1080 then 3.5 is about 600 - Well, i'm charging 450 and giving the homeowner a break because this is the 2nd tree i've cut for him and i have another just down the street (close enough to drive my skid steer to). Not to mention he gave his dad my name and i did a $2200 job for him last year.

I'm not trying to cause a big ruckus, i just had to vent - sorry.

Deals I have gave deals and the time frame you are speaking of
tells me the tree is more like 70 feet and smaller in diameter
than my thinking and the fact you can fall 40 foot of it is
another is it 20 inch diam?
450.00 is not much of a tree I do some pines for that
usually skinny!

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Ok feller I have seen many large pines here that six hours
let just say there aint no superman and I don't pay all the
money to be legit to make nothing. A hundred foot pine here
in tight quarters will be forty to fifty inch diameter at fifty
feet tall and if care must be taken to bring it down I am
not going to put estimate that causes a rush job.Also
cleanup will take longer than six hours I don't know
how you figure your jobs but I would rather be adequate
to cover risk and time.

I've done a number of white pines that were 90-100ft tall and under 36 in @ 30 ft Which is the bar size of my 384 and around where I've usually left the spar.

I was figuring best case outcome on a semi technical rig job.

have a 91 model 250 bandit chipper, LX665 New Holland skid steer, dump trailer and a 98 model dodge cummins to pull it all with.... i'm charging 450 and giving the homeowner

If that is how you have all that on site, I think you are cheating yourself with a 3 man crew.

Do you come back for the wood at a later date, or are you running 2 trucks?

The loader helps speed things up, but you should have billable hours on it, at least equal to 1/2 Mhr.

This really should be moved to a different forum

 

[clearance]

Oh, and clearance - MS stands for Mississippi, not misses!!!! I'm hung just like you are bud! hahha

Goodness, how embarrasing.

Hung like me, now thats saying a lot.

 

[MS TreeMonkey]

Sorry about being so off topic - i won't comment on it anymore after this. Just wanted to say that it was 112 feet tall with 31" diam. We pulled away from the job right at 10:30 after getting there at 7. However, i did have to go back and pick up the main stem of the tree (about 48 ft, along with my skid steer - it all fit on my 22 ft gooseneck). That took an extra 45 min. I've got some pics of the job and i'll try to put them in the pics forum. That may explain the situation a little better. No flower beds or anything to dodge, but the homeowner didn't want me to just "bombs away" the blocks. Oh, i did only have one ground man today - but he's a good one! yes, i probably do cheat myself as far as the equipment goes, that's a weakness of mine.

Again, sorry for sounding so harsh on my original post and for leading clearance's original post astray.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Sorry about being so off topic - i won't comment on it anymore after this. Just wanted to say that it was 112 feet tall with 31" diam. We pulled away from the job right at 10:30 after getting there at 7. However, i did have to go back and pick up the main stem of the tree (about 48 ft, along with my skid steer - it all fit on my 22 ft gooseneck). That took an extra 45 min. I've got some pics of the job and i'll try to put them in the pics forum. That may explain the situation a little better. No flower beds or anything to dodge, but the homeowner didn't want me to just "bombs away" the blocks. Oh, i did only have one ground man today - but he's a good one! yes, i probably do cheat myself as far as the equipment goes, that's a weakness of mine.

Again, sorry for sounding so harsh on my original post and for leading clearance's original post astray.

How about the double drive times. Was it really 45min from stop to roll including off loading the logs?
Were there other jobs that you finished the cleanup on that defrayed the travel cost?

This is where many small operators loose money. They do not count the time it took to get the loader on the truck, off load the waste...ect... take a moment and figure the cost to pay for, run maintain and insure the loader and trailer per year. Divide that by 200 operating days and you will have a rough daily operating cost.

I'm not tying to browbeat you with it, just passing on some lessons and thoughts I've leaned over the years.

 

[arborworks1]

First of you are an arborist, if you go about your daily operations trying to do quality tree work.

If all the local guys around you priced this tree around a grand why would you cut yourself out of that income. 450 and 1100 is a giant margin, my friend. just my look on it, our bargain tree service priced themselves right out of business. they had tons of work but were taking to long to get to it and started losing clients. then they had equipment troubles and had no money to repair broken crap and folded.

One other thing Buy equipment that you almost can't afford. don't spend 3000 bucks on a piece that works for 6 months and have to replace it with another 3000 buck piece in the same year.

 

[Juicemang]

I********

Whats going to happen when your equipment is breaking down, saws need to be replaced, and your climbing-rigging gear has seen better days? You start cutting into your personal pay if you want to stay in business and keep underbidding. Since your getting paid less you can't buy a quality house, have a nice vehicle, start or take care of a family. Oh and lets not forget about your health insurance and retirement fund.

A fair price is fair to the customer and you. Stop and look at your business and personal assets. You’re cheating yourself out of something because $450 for the job you describe is ridiculous.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

If all the local guys around you priced this tree around a grand why would you cut yourself out of that income.

That's not quite where I was going. If he has an economy he can pass on to the market then he can price his work under what the other people do.

I just know a lot of people who have experience with the work who have problems with pricing. They do not look at all the parts of their operation.

So many people who see them self as honest and hard working do not value themselves

Juicemang ... Instead of bragging about doing a $1000 job for $450, why not just post **** and call it a night.

Maybe I'll say you are retarded for trying to start a flame war. But I wont. I'll just say you were lacking in judgement and did not realize you do not know the man you "dis'ed".

Infract you next time (unless someone else already has...)

Maybe it is not a $1000 job for him. Maybe it is just a little underbid because he knew he was getting some more work later.

IMO he is not seeing all the nuts and bolts of his operation, especially if he has to come back as the lead climber, sales man and everything else. Here most people will not return with a loader in tow for less the $300.

 

[chucknduck]

You are definately not a hack, with the equipment, insurance, and quality of work you describe. But, you are a lowballer. Sure you make enough money to pay the bills, your crew, yourself, etc, etc. I know that I do trees for several reasons, mainly being that I enjoy it, and I like to make a profit. Tree work Is so risky and dangerous that it should be worth more. Not just anybody can do it well, so if you can do it well, then charge for that expertise! I do tree work because I can make more doing it than most other jobs. But I can't when lowballers outbid me by half

 

[ropensaddle]

When prices are way too out of whack it hurts the business as
a whole as do illegal's. I ask you if you got in a risky life threatening
biz for peanuts are you any different than a circus animal?
I am considered the mid range bidder in my area and I want to get
higher or paid better as I can't afford health ins or retirement as it
is now. Volume of work is not a reality unless you hire enough employees
to profit as you get older you will understand this. I did not get in biz
to be underpaid or not be able to afford the maintenance on equipment
and thus work unsafe with no health ins!

 

[OTG BOSTON]

Flippity dippity do. I haven't logged onto this site for over 6 months and now i remember why. I get so sick of the "arborists" calling the others (myself included) a hack! it's so 3 yr oldish. I try to provide a service for customers in my local area at a fair price. They don't want to pay $1100 bucks to take down a 100ft pine tree next to the house. Well,.... forget it. No use in explaining myself. I guess you "arborists" will always have us hacks to make fun of - but i know i'll sleep alot better at night knowing i didn't "stick it to somebody." I'm outta here.:angry2:

SPAM


You DO realize you are on ARBORISTSITE right?

 

[hornett22]

and pay for gas and oil.

and insurance on you ,your crew,and your vehicles.i guess equipmnet,labor,and insurance are free in MS.

So let's say it takes 6 hrs for that pine to come down and get cleaned up and hauled away, and there is a 3 man crew at $60/mhr

(60*3)*6=1080

And you still have to dispose of the wood.