Arborists charge too much for tree work!!!!

[M.D. Vaden]

This brings a few things to mind.

Starters: every area is different. Our area in Medford, Oregon, seems to have a couple of high price companies, and at least one of them is not a Certified Arborist managed company.

I've run into bidding against one twice, where my $350 bid for 4 hours of shrub & tree pruning with 1 man, contrasts against their $600. Might just be that they are bidding a whole crew where one man is needed. Especially when this contrast pits bids of a double-certification against their no-certification.

Up in Portland, there was one Certified Arborist company that I felt was high a little, and one non-Certified that I felt was through the roof, due to being even higher than the Certified Arborist companies. I mean, I was bidding $600 for 5 to 6 hours, against a bid of over $2000 from this one outfit, and this was for like some hedges and shrub stuff for less than an entire day.

If anyone is in Portland, does pruning with an "Irish" touch ring a bell

So I won't dispute that some companies are too high or through the roof. And it does not seem that being Certified or not is a label that fits that group.

As far as the entire conglomoration of arborists, doesn't it seem that the "marketplace" itself would weed out a good percentage of companies that are too high via word of mouth, reputations and bid comparisons?

 

[GottaCut]

It all depends on how well you can do the job, I just did a job for a guy for less than half what the local big guys bid. Silver maple, 3.5'dbh, 60'tall,
15'away from the house 2 almost identicle codominant stems. The other bids were between 800-1200, thats just to the ground(homeowner wanted all the wood) my bid was for 375. The HO told me the other guys said they'd have to use their buckets and the tree couldnt be climbed. I said bulls***, he took my bid I climbed it, made one cut on the stem facing the house and took out the top 20' and all that sides limbs, installed a 7/8" Samson bull rope, got down and put a good open notch in her and you know the rest.......
the tree fell on the house!

Yeah right just kidding, I know some of you wouldve gotten a twisted enjoyment outta that! Anyhow all said I cleared probably 250 off that after my gas and giving my ground guy 75 bucks for a hour and half work!

 

[teamtree]

I say if you can make money charging less than me then go ahead but I try not to let others 'lowballing' change the way I do business.

I would say most people I know in the tree business just look what they need that day. Few figure in the cost of their retirement, training, down time, travel time, estimating time.


So yes, there are plenty of climbers who go out work an hour or so and have their day made. But it may rain tomorrow.

 

[Jon Denver]

I have to say that it is importaint to be a capatilist, were in America right? Charge what the market can bear. When I go and give a bid in prunetucky I know I cant charge as much as when I go give a bid in upper eshalon. Look at the risk, look at the high quality work you will do, competing tree companys (gaining intel helps), and yes, their house and cars. These people usually are not stupid, they know how much good tree work costs. Its about profit, otherwise whats the point. If I did not care about profit I'd stay at home and trim my bonsai trees, thats fun.
Their is a certain group of individuals (we are outnumbered by them) around here where it is in their nature to low ball by many times over 100% of the going rate. That hurts and I probably loose more buissness from these people than anyone else. It has nothing to do with credentials like a license(does not mean #@$% exept to the man and a few homeowners) or insurance(very expensive and you have to have the volume) or even an arborist cert. What matters is what you know and the kind of work you do, efficient, safe and immaculate. The clients want this more than anything else and they will call you back time and time again because they want you to trim their trees. Some of these low ballers to their credit do very good work but I have to agree that it pisses me off only because most of that money they make does not stay in circulation here, ya know.:angry2: and on top of that they drive down prices for every one else here that pays their dues.
It's all about minimizing overhead and maximizing profit.

 

[MS TreeMonkey]

First of all, I DID NOT TITLE MY COMMENT "ARBORISTS CHARGE TOO MUCH" - I don't know who did that! That wasn't even the direction that i was going with my comment. I was trying to emphasize that just because i don't have my ISA license (or whatever it's called) doesn't mean that i can't do as good of a job as someone who does. Then, some of the locals that are - don't do as thorough of a clean up job as i do. I'm not knocking anyone - i just get tired of being knocked for not having mine. Anyways, I'll try to have some pictures up of the job i was discussing later tonight. I was preoccupied this weekend - My wife and i just had our first baby - it's a boy! Maybe that'll excuse some of my hostility and tension last week. I'm normally not a griper! I think i was just full of emotions and had to vent! Thanks for not being to rough with me. (except for the retard and lowballer comment)

2 quick comments:

No i'm not a lowballer - :monkey: we have 2 of those around here that find out what you're bidding and tell the customer they'll do it for 75 bucks less. I don't need a customer that's gonna fall for that trick!

No - i'm not a retarded.:angry2: I had a friend a few years ago that really was (he's passed away now) and he would've beat the punk outta you if you'd a told him that.

 

[mckeetree]

Hmmmmmmmmmm.

 

[Ironxylem]

Come on where's the Christmas Spirit?

I can quote 20% more than my comp.....I don't show up stinking like booze.
I don't really understand the whole point of this post....maybe thats why I jumped in.
Hummmm.....
By the way, how do I get some of those fancy green bars?

 

[DonnyO]

First of all, I DID NOT TITLE MY COMMENT "ARBORISTS CHARGE TOO MUCH" - I don't know who did that!

flippity dippidy do, must have been one of those Arborists:censored:

 

[hornett22]

i'm not certified but.............

this is Connecticut.my property tax just got boosted 600 a month.that is more than i paid for the whole year in Tennessee.every market is different.there is no way i could charge what i do here if i were still in Tennessee.then again,trucks and equipment don't rust down there like they do here either.vehicles cost more there but last a lot longer.it's all relevant to your location.i'm sure vermeer in knoxville charges the same as vermeer in seymor ct though.

you think it's high here,go to the boston area.you ain't seen nothing till you see what they get.granted they have to pay Ted Kennedy's bar tab but that is beside the point.

 

[Canyonbc]

this is Connecticut.my property tax just got boosted 600 a month.that is more than i paid for the whole year in Tennessee.every market is different.there is no way i could charge what i do here if i were still in Tennessee.then again,trucks and equipment don't rust down there like they do here either.vehicles cost more there but last a lot longer.it's all relevant to your location.i'm sure vermeer in knoxville charges the same as vermeer in seymor ct though.

you think it's high here,go to the boston area.you ain't seen nothing till you see what they get.granted they have to pay Ted Kennedy's bar tab but that is beside the point.

I second that.

Even just the market from San Diego...to Northern California (Sonoma County) can be a big difference and that is 600 miles...let alone different parts of the country.

 

[diltree]

You need to stop worrying about the arborist/hack comparison and start worrying about being a better business owner. If your leaving over a 100% out on the table compared to the second bidder then your too way too low. You sound like a descent guy who's starting a family of his own, don't cheat your family out of income buy applying your trade way under market value. Your in a dangerous profession and you put your life on the line anytime you climb, no matter how good or safe you are in the tree. Don't lesson the value of your expertise with low pricing.

 

[MS TreeMonkey]

I'll be the first to admit that i'm not an A-1 business man. I run my business alot different than other guys. Since all my equipment's paid for i have trouble assessing a monthly allotment to put back for it. I do consider wear and tear and general maintenance, but since i don't pay a note, i don't say "well, i have to put away $600/month to pay for the brush bandit." I guess that's the biggest mistake i'm making. If any of you have a budget suggestion, i've got open ears. :monkey:

 

[Industry]

I don't own a biz. not yet anyway, but I will be putting away whatever the monthly payment Would be on the piece of equipment I will have to buy when my current one fails. If a new chipper of comparable size is $750 a month then that is what I would put into a savings account under the business. Just an Idea

 

[hornett22]

repaiirs ain't cheap.

i'd charge the same as if you had notes on your equipment.stuff wears out and breaks down.how are you going to grow and buy bigger,better,more modern equipment?hire new employees? pay for inflation and the inflated salaries of politicians.congress is going to a 3 day work week next year.you know that is gonna cost us double.

 

[Monk]

Technique

I think alot of how a person does their job has alot to do with the price of their bidding I would be considered a low baller by most standards. I learned how to trim on a power line and I am very fast and very clean with my work. I have done trees by myself in less time than local crews with a 3 man crew have done similar trees in yes every thing cost money I have a partner we split the profit I figure 200 for my truck and chipper a day 10 dollars for insurance and 40 for misc. thats 250 dollars and I can easily do 2 of the trees described if not 3 or 4 so figure 2 trees at 450 thats 900-250=650/2 =325 a piece that is a damn good days wage in my opinion the 250 a day goes into an account and used for repairs gas ect. and is a nice christmas bonus at the end of the year. I do everything off of hooks also no bucket I might bump the truck up to 250 if I get a bucket. Most guys think they are more qualified than they are and make the job harder than it is. If it takes you more than 6 hours with a 3 man crew to do a 100ft pine you need to reavaluate yourself and crew. I know it would make me wonder if I was in the right profession.



Monk

 

[diltree]

I think alot of how a person does their job has alot to do with the price of their bidding I would be considered a low baller by most standards. I learned how to trim on a power line and I am very fast and very clean with my work. I have done trees by myself in less time than local crews with a 3 man crew have done similar trees in yes every thing cost money I have a partner we split the profit I figure 200 for my truck and chipper a day 10 dollars for insurance and 40 for misc. thats 250 dollars and I can easily do 2 of the trees described if not 3 or 4 so figure 2 trees at 450 thats 900-250=650/2 =325 a piece that is a damn good days wage in my opinion the 250 a day goes into an account and used for repairs gas ect. and is a nice christmas bonus at the end of the year. I do everything off of hooks also no bucket I might bump the truck up to 250 if I get a bucket. Most guys think they are more qualified than they are and make the job harder than it is. If it takes you more than 6 hours with a 3 man crew to do a 100ft pine you need to reavaluate yourself and crew. I know it would make me wonder if I was in the right profession.



Monk[/QUOTE

Monk,

The quality of your work should either demand a higher or lower premium. If you do better quality work then your competitor then you should be contracted at a higher Rate.

Also; $200 a day for a truck and chipper, is only $25 an hour for the two pieces of equipment. TH ATS WAY TO LOW. Your only getting $12.50 an hr. for your chipper truck when its worth more like $50.00 per hr, and the chipper is worth $20-$60 an hr, depending on what kind of chipper you own. Your just way off, and if you don't adjust your prices your company or bank account will never really grow.

I bid allot of hourly municipal work, Take it for what its worth, I'm just trying to help

 

[diltree]

I'll be the first to admit that i'm not an A-1 business man. I run my business alot different than other guys. Since all my equipment's paid for i have trouble assessing a monthly allotment to put back for it. I do consider wear and tear and general maintenance, but since i don't pay a note, i don't say "well, i have to put away $600/month to pay for the brush bandit." I guess that's the biggest mistake i'm making. If any of you have a budget suggestion, i've got open ears. :monkey:

You can always figure the job hourly to come to a reasonable quote on any job. Develop hourly rates for your personnel and different pieces of equiptment, when you bid a job decide who you will need and what equipment will be necessary. Then add your rates and multiply by how many hours it will take you to do the job. This is a very safe and accurate way too bid any job, If your rates and time estimation are accurate you will always be in the ball park.

 

[Monk]

equipment

Diltree

I charge 200 a day for my chipper and truck 5 days a weeks thats 1000 my chipper payment is 400 a month and my truck is paid for. So I have enough money to make 2 chipper payment and put fuel in both. you guys think equipment is worth more than it is. people can go rent it cheaper than what you want to charge them for it being there. I understand what you are saying diltree but when I can pay for and maintain my equipment for a tenth of what most people charge it would be stupid not to it gets me the bid. Its dog eat dog and I would rather be at the top of the food chain than the bottom. I am doing something right because I normally have more work than I can handle and I haven't spent a dime in advertising.

 

[grandpatractor]

Oh, and clearance - MS stands for Mississippi, not misses!!!! I'm hung just like you are bud! hahha

That's Ok, everyone thinks that Clearance is a really tall guy . All the bridges around here say "Clearance--13'6":jawdrop:

 

[BC WetCoast]

Monk

All the res tree services around here bid/schedule at a rate to make between $1000 - 1400/ day for a 2 man crew with truck and chipper.

I'm not sure if you are considering these items in setting your hourly estimate rates:
- holiday pay for yourself and your crew
- time lost marketing/selling/maintenance
- training costs
- health insurance for you and your partner
- partnership insurance (if one of you was to die/seriously hurt) do you have enough money available to buy out the estate of the other
- lawyer, accounting and bookkeeping fees
- fund to replace/repair broken/stolen/run over saws and other small equip
- enough money to make equipment payments and salaries during slow periods of the year

If your truck blows an engine/tranny etc, you will still be making payments on the chipper, you need a buffer.
I'm not sure if you have a crew, but unless you like to keep retraining new people, then you need to spend some money to keep the ones you have. If you don't have crew, then start thinking about getting some. Rich people never got rich by doing all the work themselves.