Are chainsaws expensive to manufacture?

[Tony Snyder]

kenabcd,

Do you have any idea what other parts like pistons and cylinders might typically cost in volume?

 

[Tony Snyder]

There seems to be a lot of Mahle cylinders and pistons out there. Does anyone know what saw makers make their own and who outsources them?

Are cylinder bores honed after Nikosil or plating?

Can anyone explain the bore coating processes?

 

[bwalker]

Are cylinder bores honed after Nikosil or plating?

Yes they are. After the plateing is applied the cylinder is honed to final dimensions using a diamond hone usually on a sunnen hone machine.

Can anyone explain the bore coating processes?

Nicisil is applied by electroplateing. The casting is given a acid bath to remove any grease or contaminants that would hurt adhesion and then it is electro plated. After the cylinder comes out of the plateing tank it is honed to size and then the ports are chamfered. After that its basicaly ready to go.


FWIW Mahle makes the best plated cylinders and pistons in the world. They are a oem to Porsche, BMW and I believe Benz also. They are also the inventor and patent holder for the Nicasil process.I would take a saw with Mahle parts anyday over one with in house cylinders and pistons.

 

[JimL]

Stihl started making some of their own piston & cyl's


Way i look at buying a saw, how long will it take to pay off? Couple trees maybe and its paid for?


still using my 066 redlight special every day, hate to count how many times its paid for itself...

 

[Ryan Willock]

I can pay for a saw in one to two days depending on what I'm cutting and thats after paying for other expenses! So are saws cheap??? YES!

 

[Weatherby]

Ryan,

How about buy me a few saws then, ill even come help with some of the work.

Rob

 

[JimL]

saws are a disposable tool in a way,
kinda like a tape measure is to a carpenter..
like files ect..
not like a hammer...

 

[Ryan Willock]

Rob, I didn't mean that I (or anyone else for that matter) could go out and buy a bunch of saws and just pay for them. I meant was that I can buy the saws I NEED to get the job done and pay for them. But of couse that also depends on your amiterzation schedual.

 

[bwalker]

Ryan, I dont see how you could pay for the cost of a new saw in a day or two logging. Last I remember you where a one man show using a compact tractor with skidder attachment. After paying your fuel cost, maintenance, insurance, landowner, log trailer transpotation to mill and personal wages I dont see you buying a 7-$800 dollar saw in two days. If it where true you could plow over over $3000 per week in capital expenditures back into your business. At that rate you would have your own log truck and skidder in no time.

 

[Ryan Willock]

Ben, you didn't read the second part of my post. I said it depends on how you figure your expenses. I'm in the process of getting a log truck and larger skidder right now. I may or may not get a truck in the next couple of weeks but like I said it depends on how you figure things.

 

[bwalker]

Ryan, I dont know about your neck of the woods, but the logger I work for isnt clearing the kind of money you are talking about. No matter how you minipulate the figures. Its very unlikely that a one man band can clear that kind of loot. Maybe gypo can chime in on this. He may be a bad exaple though as he has access to some very high grade trees that most people do not.

 

[Jacob J.]

It depends on a lot of factors, i.e.- what price Ryan gets the wood for, how much he can haul on a load, or whether or not he's on a 50/50 split with a landowner. A buddy of mine here has a self-loader, and logging companies let him pick through their cull decks for free. He gets $450.00-500 a load for good firewood, and sometimes he can pick up a load of 3-mill or quater-block grade softwood which will bring in $2800.00- 3300 a load. His hauling expenses are about $120.00-160 a load. The average load of 2-mill Douglas fir second growth here is about $5800.00 a load, at the current price of $650/mbf, and the logger is getting it for around $200/mbf.

 

[JimL]

depends on what kind of timber your buying,
my skidders paid for, knuckle boom too.
all i gots is insurance.

Sell a pile of veneer walnut logs and i got some cash in me hand...

 

[bwalker]

He gets $450.00-500 a load for good firewood,

Thats interesting. I can get the same prices or more for firewood in my area. I also have a free supply as I the guy I work for lets me take all the tops and culls I want. The problem is after I transport the stuff and process it I would be making so little its hardely worth my time.

 

[rbtree]

Originally posted by Jacob J.
The average load of 2-mill Douglas fir second growth here is about $5800.00 a load, at the current price of $650/mbf, and the logger is getting it for around $200/mbf.

Hi Jacob,

Isn't something wrong with those figures?

I do some residential logging, so I work with self loaders of slightly less payload, and usually dont have optimum logs with low taper. I rarely get over 4000 board feet on a truck, and, of late, am lucky to clear $1500 for a load of mixed grade export and domestic. Gone are the good old days of $1200 per mbf and generous grading.

I do recall a photo gypo posted of an over 9000' load of veneer logs, but they were all 8-16 feet long, so that maximizes scale.

 

[Jacob J.]

Bwalker- My buddy drops it off with no processing. He picks it up from the deck and delivers it to the homeowner's yard, as whole logs.
Rbtree- Mostly what comes off of landings here in my area ( Weyerhauser land, coastal Oregon ) is three and four log loads. This means douglas fir that's 30" to 45" on average on the small end at 41' and 45' lengths. Some five log loads average 26" on the small end at the same lengths, up to 56 footers. This means packing almost 10mmbf per load on a "straight wagon". We haul some shorties on "mule trains", but rarely. Those loads only average 6mbf per load and are priced @ 3mill or core stock, which right now is only $500/thousand.
Here's an example of a local sale- 146 acres, 8.5 million b.f.; peeler and 1mill- $700/thousand in desired lengths; 41'10". 2mill- $650/ th., 3mill and core- $500/th. Chip logs- $31/ton.
other lengths:
34'10"- 85% of scale
31'10"- 75% of scale
26'10"- 65% of scale
anything else: 50% of scale.

This sale will average $600/thousand for 8.5 million board feet. The logger got the sale for $225/thousand. Logging and hauling costs will be about $150.00/thousand.

 

[rbtree]

Jacob,

Thanks for that info..

I think I was forgetting how much scale a few large logs produce!

A while back, we were getting $500/mbf for 16 foot or longer good grade domestic logs, so it was advantageous to cut short logs for scale. Now, at $400 for short, and 500-650 for export sorts, the plot thickens.

This week, we're craning out 6 firs from a backyard, and over the house. Got them limbed and chipped Sat, down to 60-90 feet sticks. Small trees, only 2500-3000 feet, but a few good clear butt logs. Then we have three on another site that are close to the crane, so will help make up for the crane fees, as they are big, at 1500' per tree, but rough. We'll be lucky to get $400/mbf, but I am buying them from another tree guy for $150 each, and expect less than $300 crane fees, so I hope to make $500 for a couple hours work.