Are full chisel chains sharper than their semi-chisel counterparts?

[user 188535]

Just trying to clear this up to make sure that I'm not making a sharpening mistake.

 

[jhellwig]

What do you mean by sharp? If you are trying to tell if it is sharp by feel you are doing it wrong.

 

[sean donato]

What do you mean by sharp? If you are trying to tell if it is sharp by feel you are doing it wrong.

He's 13, doesn't really know what's going on yet.

 

[sean donato]

It's not sharper per say, it's a more efficient cutter design. How sharp it is depends on who sharpened it. A dull chisel will cut slower no matter how efficient the design vs a poorly designed cutter that is actually well sharpened.
Having said that, typically chisel is a faster/better cutting chain then semi chisel. Square ground chains are faster then both.

 

[user 188535]

He's 13, doesn't really know what's going on yet.

Yep. But it beats sitting on my bum being a bum.

 

[user 188535]

It's not sharper per say, it's a more efficient cutter design. How sharp it is depends on who sharpened it. A dull chisel will cut slower no matter how efficient the design vs a poorly designed cutter that is actually well sharpened.
Having said that, typically chisel is a faster/better cutting chain then semi chisel. Square ground chains are faster then both.

Ok. I see now how that works.

 

[user 188535]

It's not sharper per say, it's a more efficient cutter design. How sharp it is depends on who sharpened it. A dull chisel will cut slower no matter how efficient the design vs a poorly designed cutter that is actually well sharpened.
Having said that, typically chisel is a faster/better cutting chain then semi chisel. Square ground chains are faster then both.

I do love my full chisel chain. I use file guides and was just ensuring that it did not matter if it was sharp to the touch. I know the basics and safety stuff. I just want to know all of the other stuff.

 

[hacskaroly]

I just want to know all of the other stuff.

Just keep asking questions and you will keep adding to your knowledge. At work I dug out the 2018 Oregon catalog and 2020 Stihl Bar and Chain catalog from the bottom drawer and started flipping through them and have found a wealth of information from them that answered questions my coworkers couldn't. I pass that info along so we all can learn.

 

[Mad Professor]

I do love my full chisel chain. I use file guides and was just ensuring that it did not matter if it was sharp to the touch. I know the basics and safety stuff. I just want to know all of the other stuff.

As you are learning to file take a black sharpie and blacken out the area of the cutters that the file scores metal off.

Take a stroke at a time and observe how the cutter is cleaned out and blackened area is removed. When it is all just shiny check that the top and sides of the cutter have met the filed surface. If not give it a few more strokes with the file.

After a while you'll be able to feel when the cutter is cleaned up.

 

[user 188535]

As you are learning to file take a black sharpie and blacken out the area of the cutters that the file scores metal off.

Take a stroke at a time and observe how the cutter is cleaned out and blackened area is removed. When it is all just shiny check that the top and sides of the cutter have met the filed surface. If not give it a few more strokes with the file.

After a while you'll be able to feel when the cutter is cleaned up.

I just use the master link to see where I'm sharpening. My chains sometimes get dirty enough for me to already be able to see that.

 

[singinwoodwackr]

There are countless tutorials and explanations of the science behind why square grind (full chisel) cuts faster in clean softwood than round ground chisel. Full chiz is tricky to sharpen correctly without a fancy Silvey grinder, however. I’ve always stuck with round files chiz As I cut mostly hardwoods.

 

[northmanlogging]

semi/full chisel is more a description of the tooth shape, theres another version that is more rounded even then semi chisel
the semi and "round" are better for dirty wood as they will put up with more abuse
Chisel is going to be more aggressive when sharpened correctly but the differences are minute
when your ready for it, going to square ground is an expensive jump but will cut faster then all the others even when done poorly, you can buy square ground chain, and then file to round, its often cheaper.
going round file to square ground is rough on chain life though, takes a pretty healthy bite to get it back to square, square grind doesn't work really at all on semi or "round" profile chain

 

[buzz sawyer]

Yep. But it beats sitting on my bum being a bum.

Keep asking those questions. I bet there are few on this site who could have answered them when they were 13.
Just don't start another oil thread.

 

[sean donato]

Yep. But it beats sitting on my bum being a bum.

You took my speaking of your age out of context, in response to the other guys response. I was nearly stating you're young and don't know, hence you asking.

I do love my full chisel chain. I use file guides and was just ensuring that it did not matter if it was sharp to the touch. I know the basics and safety stuff. I just want to know all of the other stuff.

It takes considerable practice to sharpen any Chain proficiently. In the end they should be the level of "sharpness" which is unrelated to cutter type. The design of the cutter imparts different characteristics that we are after, ie square will give the fastest results cutting, however it is most prone to damaging of the cutter from dirt, rocks etc. A chisel/ semi chisel are more forgiving because the design of the cutter supports the leading edge better, but sacrifices efficiency. It's all a give and take. When you add in a properly sharpened cutter it becomes quite clear the advantages of each cutter. How ever a poorly sharpened cutter, no matter the design will still cut badly.

 

[huskihl]

Because of the angles used in an attempt to make it cut faster, semi chisel is usually sharper than chisel. But with a fresh edge on each, chisel is faster cutting due to it being a more efficient cutter. But it dulls faster also

 

[angelo c]

Always loved a good "chain" chat...
What I find is that.....
"It depends"...on what kinds of woods your intending to cut and what kinda crud is inbedded. Some chains rip through silver Marple yet struggle with Ash
Takes a while to figure out what works best for your wood supply.

 

[user 188535]

You took my speaking of your age out of context, in response to the other guys response. I was nearly stating you're young and don't know, hence you asking.

It takes considerable practice to sharpen any Chain proficiently. In the end they should be the level of "sharpness" which is unrelated to cutter type. The design of the cutter imparts different characteristics that we are after, ie square will give the fastest results cutting, however it is most prone to damaging of the cutter from dirt, rocks etc. A chisel/ semi chisel are more forgiving because the design of the cutter supports the leading edge better, but sacrifices efficiency. It's all a give and take. When you add in a properly sharpened cutter it becomes quite clear the advantages of each cutter. How ever a poorly sharpened cutter, no matter the design will still cut badly.

Yep. Do you think that I should get a USG once I set up my shop?

 

[sean donato]

Always loved a good "chain" chat...
What I find is that.....
"It depends"...on what kinds of woods your intending to cut and what kinda crud is inbedded. Some chains rip through silver Marple yet struggle with Ash
Takes a while to figure out what works best for your wood supply.

I agree, it's seldom I use a semi chisel or round ground chain. I prefer square ground, but it's painfully slow for me to sharpen by hand, so I typically go for a full chisel.

Yep. Do you think that I should get a USG once I set up my shop?

I'd you're refuring to a bench grinder, yes. I think they are a valuable tool to have on hand. I don't use mine often, but it's great for taking down a rocked up chain and making it usable again. I don't use mine real often, preparing to hand file a chain. Every so often I do a "tune up" on the grinder to even the cutters out. Seems to work well for me. There is a learning curve to using a grinder and not overheating the cutters. Like with all new techniques, it's best to have a few junk chains on hand for practice.

 

[fields_mj]

As to your original question, it depends on exactly what you mean by "sharper". If you are talking about how a properly sharpened edge feels against your finger, then yes, the point on the top plate of a properly sharpened full chisel cutter will feel as sharp as a cat's claw. The other profiles don't have a point which can make it more challenging to know when the cutter is sharpened. This is one reason why I find full chisel chain to be the easiest one to sharpen.

For me, full chisel is also the cutter design that cuts the best. Some will say that the difference is marginal. I think it depends on how sharp you keep your chains. If you maintain your chain after every tank of fuel, I think the full chisel cuts noticeably better. Whether or not you can take advantage of that depends on how you've set your depth gauges and how much torque and HP your saw has vs how long your bar is. This is why I think the 261 works best with 16" and 18" bars. It has enough power and torque to pull an aggressive chain on the shorter bars. When you get up to a 20" bar, the saw will still run it, but it doesn't run it well enough to notice much difference between a full chisel and a semi-chisel cutter. A properly sharpened full chisel chain on a properly sized bar should pull itself into the wood with a noticeable amount of force (as in you wouldn't be tempted to not have both hands on the saw at all times), where as a semi chisel chain, or any chain on a longer bar doesn't pull nearly as hard.