Are there any legitimate tree guys out there?

[Reed]

Hey - I feel for you but I think we all face ethics that have deflated some inthe past few years - real estate agents, car salesmen, campaign promises, preachers, corporate executives, accountants, media people, Army generals, high school principles, neighborhood associations, attorneys, blah blah on and on.

Less honor because it doesn't pay dividends in cash immediately.

 

[Kram]

You should have given him a good scolding and told him he's the reason why they make the real tree people look bad, with your expertise and experience, he could have learned something from you.

 

[TREETX]

Sounds like hauling the wood away from that dead Q. nigra was more than the scraper could handle. If he points out the dead tree then they will call a TREE service and then risk losing the trimming.

I have had the similar situation where I overlooked a dead/declining tree. I ALWAYS point it out because I don't want the customer to think my pruning caused the decline/death.

 

[ORclimber]

Somebody needs to start their own business.

 

[topnotchtree]

You are not alone. I worked for this company on weekends for a very short while. I was set to run his crew on a Sunday for an easy job trimming a bunch of trees at this older mans house. We got there and my (boss) was wearing jean cut offs with sandals. No shirt hiding his numerous tattoos. Then asked the customer to pay him cash. $700 . He actually asked the old guy to go to the ATM for him!. I was ashamed to be associated with the guy. Never worked there again.

 

[SilverBlue]

Take a look at what the builder next door did to this Apple.
He excavated 1/2 of the roots, plowed his dozer right through the tree and then did this marvoulous prunning job.

 

[TREETX]

Originally posted by ORclimber
Somebody needs to start their own business.

I agree - but then you have to deal with tree climbers and a bunch of other headaches.

.02

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by RockyJSquirrel
I was too wierded out to even analyze it at the time, but I now can see that he didn't want to lose the dollars he was going to get for trimming off the one lead. If I could find some legitimate arborists in this town, I'd have plenty of work!

Brain, I'm wierded out by this post
Why didn't you just help the guy rebid the job to include the removal, so both of you could get more money? 'Why didn't you look into the cause of death so the homeowner might learn how to keep the rest of the trees alive, so you guys could sell him that work, too? If hauling wood is an obstacle (it is for me too), why not arrange a hauling subcontractor? Mine is called Lonnie the Logger; he and his winch have been saving my back for 15 years.
If you're quick to judge someone illegitimate or a hack or unsafe or unprofessional, you're burning a bridge every time. No man is an island, but you gotta stop narrowing your peninsula or you will be. The hardest part is to keep your and find a positive angle in every negative situation; there are always several new work opportunities to develop if you can just keep your eyes on the prize of preserving trees.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Originally posted by Guy Meilleur
and find a positive angle in every negative situation; there are always several new work opportunities to develop if you can just keep your eyes on the prize of preserving trees.

See, there is a legitimate Tree Guy!

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by RockyJSquirrel
I felt no loyalty towards him nor any desire to even be in his presence. I have no desire to associate with thieves or con artists.

Now that you've alienated everyone in the Fla. green industry, you can live on welfare and just wait until God dies.
You are SO superior than anyone else, you could probably handle that gig no problem
But seriously--what are you in this biz for? If it's to help trees, why let transient behavior of others blow your mind? You blew a great chance to show this guy how it should be done, to provide a better service for the tree owner, and to better manage trees. High loss to suffer for the indulgence of judgmentalism

 

[rahtreelimbs]

Originally posted by ORclimber
Somebody needs to start their own business.

Brian, I realize that you like to stay lean and not have the hassles of running a full blown business. But you have a lot of experience and a lot of savvy. This may be the way to go. You sure would have a lot more control.

 

[Newfie]

"so both of you could get more money? "


I think Brian is more interested in his own integrity than more money or trying to show a crook the error of his ways.

Working with creeps will get you nowhere, and your reputation will be smeared by association. This guy KNEW the tree was dead and obviously had no interest in doing the right thing. There was no lack of knowledge or chance to teach about arboriculture. This guy was dishonest.

It's too bad that some see taking the road less traveled as a bad thing.

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by Newfie
[B I think Brian is more interested in his own integrity Working with creeps This guy obviously had no interest in doing the right thing. There was no lack of knowledge or chance to teach about arboriculture. This guy was dishonest. [/B]

I apologize Brian, you are not the one to take over for God. If newfie can judge that the landscraper was beyond redemption from his computer 1000 miles away then HE's the one to rule over heaven and earth. Brian's gonna have to be his gofer or something.
but hey guys, are you both so perfect that you condemn others so easily? Me I'm in a glass house, so the rocks stay on the ground.
No chance to teach about arboriculture? Might as well say no chance to breathe. And re money, it is just concentrated energy; nothing dirty about it unless it's obtained by force or fraud. You both want to give up too easily on steering the guy away from fraud. If Brian can't speak up because he's just the hired help then yes, those who urge him to start a business are right..

 

[MasterBlaster]

Originally posted by Guy Meilleur
You blew a great chance to show this guy how it should be done, to provide a better service for the tree owner, and to better manage trees.

Bump.

 

[Kram]

Originally posted by Guy Meilleur
You blew a great chance to show this guy how it should be done, to provide a better service for the tree owner, and to better manage trees
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Guy is right, their really isn't any difference from your time talking arboriculture with everyone on this site as oppose to talking with that landscaper, you make some good debates here. You would really not have wasted your time with him had you made time to talk arborsense into him, he could well be the next true arborist had he been listening to an arbor preacher.
:angel:

 

[Stumper]

Brian, I don't blame you a bit for walking. I would suggest that there might be merit in talking before you walk. MAYBE if you had quietly asked the guy "How can you do that? We need to tell the customer his tree is dead. I won't be a party to pruning a dead tree unless he knows what is going on and actually wants to waste his money. Let's bid a removal to him or take that item off the original bid. Okay?"--maybe-- he would have chosen to do the right thing and you could have earned some money while making the man consider his own morals.It might not have done any good but it is amazing how much honorable behavior can challenge someone into getting back on track when it is in their face. I don't blame you a bit for not wanting to associate with crooks.:angel:

 

[rumination]

Although in the short time I have been hanging around this forum I have learned that fiery responses are the norm, this one really surprises me.

I think that it is important to remember that we are all different people, with different ways of approaching situations, people, and life in general . Just as there will be a crooks or a scam artists, every other person cannot be a preacher or a reformer. If this was so the world would be a far less rich and varied place. It would be like a forest with only two species of trees.

I understand and agree with those who say that it is important to educate others and try to help make the world a better place. However, there are times when it is equally important not to waste our time, and save our energy for another day, another more worthwhile struggle.

 

[geofore]

professional act?

You yelled out as you left "Your tree is dead". You are not going to work for this guy again so what stopped you from walking up to the owner and explaining the tree was dead? If you had removed the limb what then would stop you from walking up to the owner and saying," Upon close examination of this branch I removed I can conclude your tree is dead and should be removed?" Who is to say the customer can only spend x dollars and one limb is all your lawn man knows the customer is willing to spend today and tree removal will have to be budgeted later, lawn and save my roof today, till I can afford the whole tree? You have options you are not using to be polite to the customer. You could because you are not going to work for this guy again, walk up to the owner and explain the lawn guy knows lawn work but is clueless the tree is dead. What stopped you from using options. Think before you react in such an unprofessional manner? You leave a bad image of tree guys behind, in your wake. Think before you react, can this lawn guy hurt you as much as you just hurt yourself. Unless this lawn guy is going to break your neck you owe it to the customer to be polite and leave a better image of tree guys in your wake.

If the guy is a fraud, you don't have to take it out on the owner by being impolite.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Brian made the right call.

He could have been more professional about dealing with the landscaper and the customer, but that's Brian.
The landscaper has done this same type of thing his whole career, this is not the first time. He has undoubtedly developed a name for himself, and I'm sure it's not a good one.
By associating himself with this guy, Brian would soon have the same reputation.

The possibility of starting his own business came up, I have another idea. Hire and train yourself a boss.
Find somebody that want to start a business and train them. Set your pay high enough to keep you happy but not so high the business goes under. Work in some prfit sharing. Make sure this person has similar goals and ethics. Look for one with good appearence, sales potential, and book working ability or a wife with that quality.

You have to understand that in the long run he will start making more money than you, but he will have earned it. You, on the other hand, will have a lot of control in the business, without many of the headaches of business operations. Most importantly, all you do is climb and lead the crew.

 

[Newfie]

Brian,so sorry...

to relegate you to second fiddle. I didn't mean to relieve you of your omnipotence. Guy, you greatly underestimate my powers, I can exercise such judgement from as far as 1800 miles, but that is mostly because I read everything Brian had to say in the original post.

Brian is well justified in his judgement maybe a little rash in the execution. Just my exalted and glorified opinion.