Aspiring Square Filers

[Crofter]

How is it going. What are you finding difficult and what part is coming well. Any time comparisons to round ground. It is slow working alone on learning square filing; sometimes the benefit of someone elses experience can save a lot of frustration.

 

[tony marks]

frank this may be asking more than u would be willing to do.. but how bout some picks of chains.. if u dont want to post picks of your best work[i wouldnt blame u].. then mabe pics of common mistakes..or something. thanks

 

[Crofter]

Tony, I got a digital camera yesterday, I swear that is harder to get my mind around than square filing. Think maybe I have to get my filing magnifier to read the little Icons. If I can get the lighting worked out I will try to get a few pics on. I think a good solid chain clamp that will hold each tooth rock solid is a must to learn on. It is much hader to try to file on the bar. I found it was a bit like learning to ride a bike. seems you get nowhere till all of a sudden you get a breakthrough. It is NOT rewarding right at the start.

 

[timberwolf]

Just remeber that camera is not like a chain, you CAN'T make it work BETTER by tweeking a bit here or there, or removing any metal

 

[rahtreelimbs]

OK....You Asked For It!!!

OK Frank, these are my first attempts at square grinding. I used a Dell Industries K245 grinder that was given to me. The wheel was shaped for round ground. I reshaped it for square ground at 40 degrees. The other angles I pulled from the Oregon handbook to get me started.


I ran the chain today. While it didn't seem to cut any faster than round ground it didn't fall on it's face either.


I left the rakers at 25 degrees. This chain felt like the rakers could be lowered a little. This was a brand new chain.


I hope I am headed in the right direction. I just winged this first attempt.



Picture #3 is probably the best one.

 

[shalenkur]

I'd like to square-file some .325---where might I get files and what size are they ?

 

[Crofter]

Rich; looking good, lots of hook in the side cutter. Get into those gullets and clean them out to get rid of the metal between the side cutter bottom and the root of the tooth. A 1/8 or 5/32 round file. It will reduce cut times measurably. I generally find the square filed chain will handle a little lower rakers.

Timberwolf;

Havent thought about modifying the camera yet unless chucking it into the woodstove. Moving thru the menus with the pressing of different buttons and finding the right little squiggly icon instead of simply turning a knob is aggravating.

Shalenkur, The flat style chisel bit file will work. The triangular style seems too big to fit between the cutter and the raker at least on a new full length tooth. Baileys online has the files

 

[Gypo Logger]

Hello fellow woodticks,
You may recall when I modified my Oregon 511 grinder for a square grind. Only trouble was the angle under the top plate was rather blunt and the sideplate angle was about like Rich's.
It cut well, but high rakers are a must or it will be way too grabby.
Here's the vid.
John

 

[Crofter]

Ill try a few pic of my filing setup

 

[Crofter]

Here is pic of a filed tooth without cleaning out the gullet. Note there is a slight side beak. The corner of the file slightly below the exact intersection of top and side. This feeds better than if the file is high and the beak is on the top. No pic of that since I try not to have that happen

 

[Crofter]

Here is cleaning the gullet with small round file; you may be able to notice a very slight side beak or that the inside corner is just slightly below the tooth corner

 

[Crofter]

I find being able to tilt the vise allows the file to be horizontal and easier to see the side and top cutter simultaneously. The tooth you are working on is locked solid for no wobble or chatter

 

[tony marks]

great pics.. but i gotta say.. square filed chain presents an problem to photograph...
stihls pic also failed to show the real angle on the inside of the cutter.. not critiqueing your pics, frank.. i think its just hard to see it in a pic.. now wheres my cane..

 

[056kid]

drag problems

I was running some oregon skip tooth squar ground in some dead ponderosa when my saw just stopped, kile the chain break activated. when i looked at the chain after finding that the chain break was not engaged i found that 2 drags had been bent out to the side far enough to catch on the side of my saw. And i know i hit no forign objects. What the hell is going on here!?

 

[rahtreelimbs]

Hey Rich,

Does your grinder allow you to push the chain into the wheel?

It looks like your wheel only has one face on it's beveled edge. Mine has two. It sure is hard to get good photos. My camera has a selection for close up photos. First time I used it was for saw chain pictures.

dan

This Dell grinder is very similar to an Oregon 511A. I don't believe you can push the cutter in with any degree of accuracy. What significance does this hold? Also, the wheel on the grinder is angled on both sides coming to a point in the center.


Frank, I will lower the rakers and clean the gullets and give it another try.


Also, I checked the overall length of each cutter. I have an .043 variance between the smallest and biggest cutter, is this OK? I am only doing this for the sake of uniformity until I find what all works.

I have to slightly repair/modify the cutter stop to be able to get the cutter lengths the same.


Thank the universe I am on the right track.

 

[Crofter]

I have a macro mode on the camera but the flash is too much and washed everything out. I am blocking off part of the flash. It is hard to get a true perspective of what the angles really are. Focus is touchy too. Photography is another area where I have lots of room for improvement.

 

[LJS]

I find being able to tilt the vise allows the file to be horizontal and easier to see the side and top cutter simultaneously.

You must have to tilt it back horizontal to use your raker gauge.

 

[rahtreelimbs]

Frank, I took your advice and cleaned out the gullets. I will lower the rakers a little and see how it works. Between you and EHP I am getting real sound advice. Thanks to both of you.


I wonder how many chains it will take to get this all figured out.

 

[Crofter]

LJS; Yes, It only takes seconds to swivel it back to level. It is on a ball socket

The position of your light source takes a bit of fiddling. When refiling a chain it is a bit difficult to place the file in the old angle or to change the angles slightly. The little gaps and shadows between tooth and file gives you feedback, but you need the light placed right to show them up.

 

[Crofter]

Frank, I took your advice and cleaned out the gullets. I will lower the rakers a little and see how it works. Between you and EHP I am getting real sound advice. Thanks to both of you.


I wonder how many chains it will take to get this all figured out.

Rich; wait till you see how it works, we could be just blowing you full of smoke!
It shouldnt take too long to get making a decent working chain that will easily beat a round ground chain.
You really start wasting time and making scrap heap stuff when you start going after the next 10 % gain that goes into anthing that might be called a racing chain. Thats when you find the meaning of independant study!