At what point is a dead pine too dangerous to climb

[kkottemann]

This week I took down two pines which had been dead for several months now. The first one was very small in diameter and height. Eventhough it had insignificant size when I was up there it felt like it could have failed at any time. Don't worry i had a climbing line attached in the top of a neighboring pine for safety. I had plenty of room to cut and chuck the whole tree from top down, but if I would have had to blocked it down via butthitching, I would have questioned the ability of the tree to hold up. Agian It is not to small size of the tree it was the fact that it had been dead for several months. Just today, same thing except a bigger tree. This pine was very limby and had a DBH of about 22". I had plenty of room to just drop everything so i limbed the tree all the way to the top. Once in the crown I topped it and started blocking out all the way back down. This tree has also been dead for several months. Again, if I was to have to rope the big wood down using the spar as support I would have questioned the structural ability of the tree to withstand the shock loading associated with that process. I would have made me very nerveous. So my question is What is the time limit for a pine to be safely worked in after it turns brown and is dead? Lets assume a crane cannot reach the tree. I am an educated person and an expierienced climber (7 years now) i do not take any unnecessary risks. I ask this because alot of the work I do is pine and currently they are all dying around me right now, so the next couple of months is going to be one dead pine after the other. How could I caculate the ability of the tree to hold up?

 

[woodchux]

I will usually climb them until the bark starts to slide off. After that probably not safe.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

I agree, loose bark is a good indicator.
If you're ever in doubt, you can guy the tree with bull ropes from the ground.

 

[xtremetrees]

to the dead tree hunter

I to seek out the deadtrees. I would say about 40 % of my climbing is on dead as you described.
I would say your body weight is a factor and your movement is a factor.
Pines are undoubtly the worse.
Ive climbed until the bark came off and even further up until the punky deadwood came off. I stop there.

Some may disagree with me but a pine generally declines in these stages.
stage 1 the needles fall off,
stage 2 the cones fall off,
stage 3 the bark releases.

I take my time, on approach @ 10 feet up I'll shake the tree as much as I can, at 20 feet up I'll shake again. Past that ill think "Light as a feather"
Its important that I am attunded to the tree that no chipper is running close by that nothing else is on my mind but the tree.
I cut for a power board 6 months once I guessed I cut over 1000 dead pines over the power lines, thats alot in 6 months. I even tied into dead pines swung over the powerline safetied into other dead pines pulled them off the line and cut. I would return a week later for side jobs to clean up etc. and the pines we hadent cut had failed about chest high.

Edit: I never rig dead pines.

I did start a thread on this topic several months ago.
"Dead tree Theory." It may help to read.
Learn the species of pine your deadling with. Know the different type os pines before you climb so that your at least comfortable in your mind.

This is a hurrican pine.IE corrupted root ball. The homeowner chained it from falling on his house.

 

[Diesel JD]

I know this is a newbie question, but it should probably be asked. What do you do when you have to take down a pine that is too dead to climb safely but there isn't any room to flop it? Bucket truck? Any better way? Thanks,
J.D.

 

[beowulf343]

I know this is a newbie question, but it should probably be asked. What do you do when you have to take down a pine that is too dead to climb safely but there isn't any room to flop it? Bucket truck? Any better way? Thanks,
J.D.

CALL IN THE PRO!!

Buckets are best, or cranes, or swinging in from another tree or object (once swung into a dead cherry off a private windmill.)

 

[TackleTree]

I know this is a newbie question, but it should probably be asked. What do you do when you have to take down a pine that is too dead to climb safely but there isn't any room to flop it? Bucket truck? Any better way? Thanks,
J.D.

Crane or tie off to neighboring tree. I would never block down on a dead tree in a bucket let alone if I am climbing it.

I have a question? Say if you are tied off to another tree and then are secured to the dead tree with flipline. The dead tree fails! What do you do after you ???? your pants? I have no experience with this nor have i ever seen it happen.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

I know this is a newbie question, but it should probably be asked. What do you do when you have to take down a pine that is too dead to climb safely but there isn't any room to flop it? Bucket truck? Any better way? Thanks,
J.D.

LOL! You climb up the tree 20' at a time and shake it real hard, if you don't fall, you go up another 20' and shake again, repeat until you fall to your death.
I did start a thread on this before, it's called, "Dead climber theory".
In the picture below, the chain was put on by the homeowner because the ball was loose and the tree was going to fall on his house. I wanted to take it off because it affected my tree shaking theory. No matter how high I went, the tree wouldn't fall over on me. I was too drunk to climb down and take it off so it could fall on me, so i just cut it down safely. Can you say, "boring"?
Please, when you look at the picture, pretend those other trees, perfectly suited for a Tie In Point, and for a Gin Point, had any lowering been needed. I was too drunk to use them, plus getting a rope into one of them would have meant using standard industry tools and taken up to 2 minutes.

I hope this all helped you. I'd give you more tips, but i'm going outside to file the brake lines on my car until they just start leaking, then its out far a real fast run past the local schools. See ya!

 

[TackleTree]

hahahaha! Sarcasm

 

[beowulf343]

Crane or tie off to neighboring tree. I would never block down on a dead tree in a bucket let alone if I am climbing it.

I have a question? Say if you are tied off to another tree and then are secured to the dead tree with flipline. The dead tree fails! What do you do after you ???? your pants? I have no experience with this nor have i ever seen it happen.

Cut your lanyard (before filling your pants.) Breakaway lanyards work well and cutting your lanyard with a chainsaw is quick if you happen to be cutting when it fails (just remember to drop your saw as you're swinging through the air.) Trees falling away from your tie-in tree aren't too bad, but trees that crash into your tie-in tree or tops that break off on top of you can be painful.

 

[treeseer]

"tie off to neighboring tree"

I'm with Tackle. Been in big pine country for 20 years now, and always try to climb a good one nearby, put in a pulley, and tie off the dead one. It is easy to do if you use a polesaw to extend your reach.

I've climbed em after the bark came off and the sapwood was sloughing. now I am less stupid or more scared (used all 9 lives already, twice), so I seek to rig instead. Worth the time, every time.

 

[TackleTree]

Your saying not to use a standard flipline to anchor? They make break away lanyards? What if you are using steel core?

 

[clearance]

I cut for a power board 6 months once I guessed I cut over 1000 dead pines over the power lines, thats alot in 6 months. I even tied into dead pines swung over the powerline safetied into other dead pines pulled them off the line and cut.

Was the power out when you did this? I really want to call BS on you right now. Can't believe a power co. would let this happen, trees on the line would kick the circuit, they would know all about it the first time it happened. Either you are full of it, the power co. is incompetent or you have a death wish, tying into dead shi and all. So, which is it?

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

You must have missed his thread, "Dead climber climbing".

 

[woodchux]

Your saying not to use a standard flipline to anchor? They make break away lanyards? What if you are using steel core?

A chainsaw will cut a steel core lanyard in 3 seconds !

 

[xtremetrees]

Mike Mass is living proof and likes the stand ShTil and run a saw.
I gotta say we did bout smoke the 4 wraps on that thingy ma bob, treeslayer can attest. We did try take chunks out the tree we roped into, just get it off the hosue.

What does the chain on the tree in the picee scarre ya?

 

[beowulf343]

They make break away lanyards?

I don't know, I haven't been able to find any. I had a local sewing, spinning, weaving expert make mine. Too dangerous to climb with because they will break with a good sharp jerk but they have saved me some pain by breaking when they are supposed to.

 

[Fireaxman]

Some may disagree with me but a pine generally declines in these stages.
stage 1 the needles fall off,
stage 2 the cones fall off,
stage 3 the bark releases. ...

When the cause of death is Pine Bark Beetles, the bark can start sloughing off well before the needles fall off. In fact, the tree this bark came off of still had 2 green branches below the heaviest hit section of the crown, but the IPS beetles had eaten out so much of the cambium in the top of the crown that the bark was already starting to fail. The bark was slipping, but the sapwood was still solid.

Still, when the bark started slipping, I stopped climbing.

http://www.arboristsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=37278&d=1156458346