At what point is it a business?

[Slick50]

You mean like the government does? If your paying the government, your are paying a lair and a thief.

So you live by 2 wrongs make a right philosophy ? All men will one day answer not to a government but to ______________ . Fill in the blank!

 

[sb47]

So you live by 2 wrongs make a right philosophy ? All men will one day answer not to a government but to ______________ . Fill in the blank!

I didn't say I practice what I preach, now did I.

 

[Philbert]

If your paying the government, your are paying a lair and a thief.

And if you are hiding income and not paying your taxes you are . . . .?

Philbert

 

[Capitalist]

When the government goes legit. I'll go legit. Besides, you are allowed to make a given amount of money that you do not have to report as income. And just because you get sued doesn't mean you have to pay that money. I have sued and won and never received a single dime. And when I complain that I didn't get my money, the law does nothing. I have been sued and never paid a dime and nothing happens.

My grandparents had a tree about to hit their house. Brother and I offered to cut it down free.
Grandma said "god protects us" and they wouldnt let us.
Short time later it hit the house which was a mobile home without insurance.

God protected her by giving her two grandsons fit to a task.

God, family, Church,and country...
Thats a list of priorities.
If one interferes with one ahead of it such as a country that will bankrupt your family if you tell them the truth... Then God isn't going to punish you for putting your most important priorities first.

I think thats obvious.
If a holier than thou thinks he is special for being honest to a government trying to destroy God and the church, I wouldn't pay them much mind.

They are like my grandparents with that tree. Won't use the resources at their disposal,so they sit and wait for a disaster they think won't come because they are "living right".

This is why I stopped attending church.
I got tired of people that couldn't hold my left nut thinking they were better than me.

 

[sb47]

And if you are hiding income and not paying your taxes you are . . . .?

Philbert

Do you report the money you make on a garage sale? If someone tips you 5 bucks do you report that as income? If you sell an old TV on CL do you report it as income? My bet is you hide sales and side money you make just like everyone else does.

 

[sb47]

My grandparents had a tree about to hit their house. Brother and I offered to cut it down free.
Grandma said "god protects us" and they wouldnt let us.
Short time later it hit the house which was a mobile home without insurance.

God protected her by giving her two grandsons fit to a task.

God, family, Church,and country...
Thats a list of priorities.
If one interferes with one ahead of it such as a country that will bankrupt your family if you tell them the truth... Then God isn't going to punish you for putting your most important priorities first.

I think thats obvious.
If a holier than thou thinks he is special for being honest to a government trying to destroy God and the church, I wouldn't pay them much mind.

They are like my grandparents with that tree. Won't use the resources at their disposal,so they sit and wait for a disaster they think won't come because they are "living right".

This is why I stopped attending church.
I got tired of people that couldn't hold my left nut thinking they were better than me.

The god that punishes all of mankind for ever, because Eve tempted Adam to take a bite of the forbidden fruit.
The same god that says he can destroy evil but never does. The same god that says every child is born a sinner before it even takes it's first breath. The same god that condemns a man for killing another man when he is defending himself from someone trying to kill them. The same god that allows suffering to people that worship him. The same god that created everything yet lets nature destroy what he created. But the bible says he LOVES you. If thats love who needs it.

 

[Capitalist]

The god that punishes all of mankind for ever, because Eve tempted Adam to take a bite of the forbidden fruit.
The same god that says he can destroy evil but never does. The same god that says every child is born a sinner before it even takes it's first breath. The same god that condemns a man for killing another man when he is defending himself from someone trying to kill them. The same god that allows suffering to people that worship him. The same god that created everything yet lets nature destroy what he created. But the bible says he LOVES you. If thats love who needs it.

You should post those verses in reference but not going to get in a religious discussion.
I just don't like it when fellow christians scorn someone and tout themselves as above someone.

 

[Haironyourchest]

Taxation is not an issue of morality. Lawmakers come and go, and yesterday's just law is today's heinous crime. And so it goes... It's a case of practicality. If we pay our dues, we get a certain return (police, roads, a military etc). Those who have power use that power to enforce their will on those who do not have power. If we as individuals agree with the moral position of those with power, we call them good leaders and we call their laws good laws, and vice versa. Law (man's law) is the exercise of power, nothing more. But whether we agree or not, we should still be mindful that there are those with more (vastly more) power than us. The mouse may despise the cat, but it should be wise and respect the cat's power, if it wants to live an easy life. There are risks and rewards in defying the law. Sometimes the rewards are meh, and the risk is meh. The IRS, like all tax collectors, can perform a "lifestyle audit" and see if your declared earnings tally with your lifestyle. Obviously, if there is a modest undeclared income stream then it's probably going to go unnoticed. If it's a case of a Lamborghini parked outside your trailer home, then it's going to be noticed. It's a matter of proportion. Sometimes we may want to spend undeclared money and *if* there was a lifestyle audit, they would want to know where that money came from. Why did you buy a new boat engine when your finances put you at close to the poverty line, etc? You could probably talk your way out of this, but is it worth the stress? Again, depends how much money we are talking about. If it's an amount that could reasonably be diluted in your declared income-outgoing, then it's nothing to worry about.

 

[Philbert]

Do you report the money you make on a garage sale?

A garage sale is not an on-going business (for me). A resale shop is.

Revisit the OP's question:

At what point in the firewood market to you take the plunge and become a small business or llc.

Philbert

 

[Capitalist]

Taxation is not an issue of morality. Lawmakers come and go, and yesterday's just law is today's heinous crime. And so it goes... It's a case of practicality. If we pay our dues, we get a certain return (police, roads, a military etc). Those who have power use that power to enforce their will on those who do not have power. If we as individuals agree with the moral position of those with power, we call them good leaders and we call their laws good laws, and vice versa. Law (man's law) is the exercise of power, nothing more. But whether we agree or not, we should still be mindful that there are those with more (vastly more) power than us. The mouse may despise the cat, but it should be wise and respect the cat's power, if it wants to live an easy life. There are risks and rewards in defying the law. Sometimes the rewards are meh, and the risk is meh. The IRS, like all tax collectors, can perform a "lifestyle audit" and see if your declared earnings tally with your lifestyle. Obviously, if there is a modest undeclared income stream then it's probably going to go unnoticed. If it's a case of a Lamborghini parked outside your trailer home, then it's going to be noticed. It's a matter of proportion. Sometimes we may want to spend undeclared money and *if* there was a lifestyle audit, they would want to know where that money came from. Why did you buy a new boat engine when your finances put you at close to the poverty line, etc? You could probably talk your way out of this, but is it worth the stress? Again, depends how much money we are talking about. If it's an amount that could reasonably be diluted in your declared income-outgoing, then it's nothing to worry about.

Well thought out post and that sums it up pretty well.

 

[Capitalist]

Sounds silly but I am scared of my taxes this year because I broke records and am claiming all I can to look impressive on paper for banks etc.

I will be paying in a lot and gf will be mad but I simply have to do it. Its our future.
I can suffer now a bit or suffer for many years if I don't.

Someone successful once told me when it comes to unexplainable cash deposits and withdrawls and the IRS you tell them you have a gambling and drinking problem.
You get drunk and go to casinos and dont even remember it.

 

[svk]

Sounds silly but I am scared of my taxes this year because I broke records and am claiming all I can to look impressive on paper for banks etc.

I will be paying in a lot and gf will be mad but I simply have to do it. Its our future.
I can suffer now a bit or suffer for many years if I don't.

Someone successful once told me when it comes to unexplainable cash deposits and withdrawls and the IRS you tell them you have a gambling and drinking problem.
You get drunk and go to casinos and dont even remember it.

Question:

If you claim a lot of income and not a lot of expenses so you can look good to the bank, can you later re-file with the IRS and add other (legitimate) expenses?

 

[JeffHK454]

I personally wouldn't make that a habit.

That’s what I was thinking myself...I sure hope making firewood pays better than the 9-5 job!

 

[Capitalist]

Question:

If you claim a lot of income and not a lot of expenses so you can look good to the bank, can you later re-file with the IRS and add other (legitimate) expenses?

Yes I probably could but they will expect 3 years final taxes for observation before loan approval.

I don't have it near as bad as some guys reading this with big companies though.
I shouldn't complain. I just spent most of the year working and getting paid like three guys.
I had a lot of expense. I wont be claiming it all though.

 

[Philbert]

I am confident that there are many single employee companies that 'do a little cash work in the side'. Having the business structure in place provides some protection, and some benefits, at some cost, but does not guarantee anything. For some customers, it might be a reassurance.

Philbert

 

[Polish hammer]

Lots of great replies no firewood doesn’t pay more then the normal job but it’s cash and extra that’s why I thought getting better equipment to process faster and have the biusness pay for it instead of out of pocket I agree cash is king but just looking for incite from others if I had a tax # I know I could get into a few gas stations for bundles also without one they have nothing to invoice they say .. but in the same way firewood still takes lots of time money and energy as it..

 

[Philbert]

Good point about the sales side. A lot of my clients require my Federal Tax ID number upfront, for a 1099 for their records, if it's going to be more than $600 for the year.

Philbert

 

[DSW]

Lots of great replies no firewood doesn’t pay more then the normal job but it’s cash and extra

My point of view is it isn't extra if you're taking off work, especially if the day job pays more. Cash is nice but a guaranteed paycheck is nicer.

Now if you're only doing it on downtime, I think it's a great idea. I'd just keep at it and see what happens in the future.

 

[Cowboy254]

Last time I looked, in Australia you could make a few bucks doing something that was classed as a hobby rather than a business. There wasn't a formal dollar value limit. Short answer was that the Tax Office couldn't be bothered with the small stuff, so Aunt Mabel is able to sell her apricot preserves at the local market without getting taxed. Now if you're pulling in $50G a year doing it they'd probably be interested. To answer the original question, I think it's a bit of a gray area. My personal impression is that if you have a full-time job and cut wood on the weekends to sell, it's not a business. If you're working for a wage part-time and cutting wood to sell the rest of the time, then it is. Whether the IRS agrees is another matter, of course.

That's probably not much help to you .

 

[Haironyourchest]

For giggles, check out the Australian tax website, claimable expenses. It's insanely detailed. If you work outdoors, you can claim back your sunscreen cream, but only if it's just sunscreen, not cosmetics with added sunscreen.