Aviation Fuel

[bvaught]

Does anyone use Avgas in their saw? If so why, and what results/problems have you had using it?

 

[canguy21]

I wouldn't. It is designed for much higher compression engines to prevent detonation. Av gas sounds great but won't have the volatility for easy starting.

 

[whatsnext]

I run 100 octane unleaded AV gas in my trials bike but it has 160 lbs of cranking pressure so you may be waisting it in a saw. It really burns your skin if you get any on yourself so watch out. I started running it in an old 301 Fantic that would ping terribly in hot weather. The AV gas stopped all the pinging and the bike started much easier when hot. The Fantic also seemed to run much cooler but I never put a thermometer on it so who knows. You might want to ask this question to the guy at the EHP forum.
John.......

 

[2Coilinveins]

I'm curious about this too. I'd love to use 100LL in the generator. No increase in performance at all, but would be nice to know that the fuel won't deteriorate in the long periods that the generator sits. If I could get it easily, I might use it in the saws too. Hmmmmmm.......

 

[jimbo1490]

Avgas is pushing $4 a gallon. Unless you have a free source like 'de-fuel' from a local small airport, it's certainly not worth buying. I have run it in almost everyting I own and it does run fine. It is quite volatile and evaporates off of any surface in free air much more quickly than pump gas. The difference here is very obvious if you have ever played around with the stuff.
There is one possible use for avgas; it seems to last a very long time without degrading too much so might be useful as a preservative fuel if you won't be using a particualr engine for a long time like a couple of years.
There are cheaper ways to get high octane gas however, and high octane gas is a waste of money in general IF you don't need it. Search the past threads as I'm sure this has been covered.

Jimbo

 

[2Coilinveins]

You betcha, Jimbo. Quick search here on AS for "aviation gasoline" returned enough results to keep me reading all evening. Quick Google search found a site that lists sources for 100LL, geared towards small plane owners. Current price for the 100LL pump here in town was less than a dime more expensive than the premium I'm already using. Well worth experimenting with, when I get around to it.

 

[fishhuntcutwood]

Search the past threads as I'm sure this has been covered.

Yes, and recently. A search of "100 LL" netted four or five results, this being the most current, and extrememly in depth.

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=19016&highlight=100+LL

Jeff

 

[P_woozel]

Store your avgas in a plastic container and you will be bummed. Metal only otherwse the fuel degrades. It must be able to breathe out the pores in the plastic over time.

 

[bvaught]

Certainly not worth buying? I can get avgas at the airport for 2.80 a gallon only 20 cents dearer than premium car gas. I dont burn more than a gallon or two a month. I have seen it in airplanes that have sat for years and the avgas in them looked and smelled the same.

What about the lead? There is an age old debate as to weather it acts as a lubricant or an abrasive. Continental claims it prevents corrosion when it builds up on cylinder walls.

Unless you really raise the compression of your saw you will not be totally benefiting from the increased octane. But if your saw got really hot one day it may prevent detonation.

What about breathing the exhaust fumes? How many brains cells could you expect to loose? Or is the exposure negligible?

P woozel, where did you get that info on plastic cans?

 

[jimbo1490]

You are fortunate to be able to get it that cheap. It's about $1.20 a gallon more than premium around here. I do get drums of de-fuel (free )from time to time but as a few of the mechanics are motorheads they often snap it up before I can get it. Fuel removed from an airplane during maintenance by law cannot go back into an airplane without being properly filtered with FAA approved equipment maintained on a periodic inspection program. Nobody in the maintenance business keeps this kind of equipment on hand so the fuel just becomes junk.

As for the plastic container deal, I have never heard of such a thing. Avgas seems far less agressive on all plastics. You can even put it in a styrofoam cup and it won't dissolve it. Aint that crazy!

Jimbo

 

[2Coilinveins]

Just got back from the airport, 1 gallon of 100LL was $3.30, about $0.80/gal more spendy than premium. The actual fuel cost $2.96/gal, then there was a state tax of $0.09/gal, a Federal Excise Tax of $0.19/gal, and a flowage fee of $0.06/gal.

I got the impression that guys driving up and buying av gas was rather common, and walking out to the field to a fuel truck to sell one gallon didn't seem to be any big deal. I did get asked four times if I knew it was leaded, though.

I mixed it with MX2T @ 32:1 as soon as I got home, and will give it a try in a saw when I get time later.

Whats the story about breathing the exhaust when burning this (leaded) stuff?

 

[bvaught]

2coilinveins,

What type of saw?

Your saw will smell like a racecar/airplane whichever you like best.

I would avoid the fumes as much as possible, thay cant be good for you.

 

[P_woozel]

bvaught, The mechanic who builds bikes at the local race shop said that, and it just conincided with what my Dad always hollered about when we would cache fuel on the trail for use in the winter, he said it "turns into paint thinner" if left in plastic. Could be more of that crap the old man was always yellin, but as it turns out over the years I've found that Dad was usually right on the money.

 

[BostonBull]

I also can get this stuff fairly cheap. is it worth running? Do the fumes make you sick or retarded? I wish someone here had some solid info on running this stuff in 2 strokes. i know a lot of guys around here run it in there stroked harleys. And the Big block guys run it too. you can always tell whos running it when they go by. once you smell the exhaust fumes you'll never forget them again!

 

[P_woozel]

i like it, seems to make transition smoother, and I'm never in doubt as to whats in the fuel. Smells funny but no biggie.

 

[2Coilinveins]

Holy no difference, Batman!

Tested in my cheapy Craftsman(Poulan) disposeable saw. 100LL w/MX2T is clear as water. Odd puddle on the bottom of the fuel can, under the 100LL, had me worried. Had the oil and fuel separated? Shook it again, no change. Used a flashlight instead of ambient daylight, puddle disappeared, just an optical illusion. Dark where the(plastic) can was sitting on the ground. Whew! Started the saw, little puff of smoke while cold, like usual. Got it warmed up, tuned, cut some pine, oak, maple. Retuned, the saw was dying coming out of the cut. Cut some more. Ran three tanks through, no probs.

Neighbor came over to take a look, said he thought I was crazy, looked and sounded like I was running straight gas. Told him it was Av gas and racing oil. Then he said he KNEW I was crazy. Makes me wonder how he knows what a saw acts like with straight gas. Short performance, I'm sure. :alien:

What do I think? All I can do is shrug. No more power discernable, saw did seem to run slightly cooler, though. Subjective only, hand on the cylinder cover. Sounds different though, more crackle and less rumble. I'll try 100LL in the 360 when I get some wood big enough to be worth cranking it up for. Sure feels odd pouring fuel that looks like water into the saw.

I'll use up what I have, but unless the 360 runs considerably better, I doubt I'll be buying any more 100LL. Just not worth the hassle.

 

[bvaught]

Yep,
Probably not worth the hassle, unless you let it sit for a few months. Or unless you are pushing the limits of compression. Or if you just want your saw to smell like an airplane. Its good for me because I get a 5 gallon can of it every 3-6 months. If it were unleaded fuel I would have to start worrying after a month. I put it in everything I have that doesnt have an catalytic converter or oxygen sensor on it. If I leave the lawnmover sitting all winter long, I dont have to worry about a gummed up carb.

If its performance you are after, VP racing fuels is the place to go. But be careful, a friend put some in his homelite and now he has a homelite with a dissolved fuel pickup line.

 

[jimbo1490]

100LL (the "LL" standing for "Low Lead) actually does not have a high lead content; it's much less than racing fuel and also less than leaded premuim auto gas from back in the day. It has a less musky smell unburned than auto gas and does not leave much odor behind if you get it on your hands. To my nose it smells EXACTLY like Colemman stove fuel. The exhaust smell is a bit more acrid than auto gas.

Jimbo

 

[bwalker]

Av gas has aorund 2 grams of lead per gallon which is fairly significant.
TEL isnt toxic when inhaled as it isnt absorbed by the lungs. Unless your drinking your fuel you should not have to worry about ingestion from using it in your saw.

 

[Crofter]

Ben, what form is the tet lead in after combustion. I seem to remember roadside dust and vegetation showing elevated lead levels. Some of the replacement compounds aren't health food either though.