back cut ?
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squad143
Tree Guy
By backcutting above your notch, it creates a ledge and that stops the tree from kicking back off the stump.
BostonBull
Addicted to ArboristSite
This is true. It should only be used when felling uphill. IMO
why?, iyo.
good answer. i dont know how it can kick back if you dont cut off the hinge wood, but it does make good sense. thank you
BostonBull
Addicted to ArboristSite
because it also multiplies the chances of the hinge grabbing your saw out of your hands. It is also harder to set-up the holding wood with a NON level backcut. If you go higher you have to leave more holding wood, because the way the wood grain goes and the notch slopes.
i did ask for y.o. but for the most part im not buying that crap. imo
Sprig
Addicted to ArboristSite
BB was sort of right imho, the 'uphill' comment' is in my opinion, wrong, it is rule of thumb to use a higher back cut in any felling, I don't care how big a tree. Lower ones can create many dangers imo, and this is reiterated in anything I have ever read or seen in the field on falling. 1/2"-1" above the internal facecut notch is ideal from what the pros say. I think that if you are lower than that this leads to fiber pull that could give you grief if your saw is still buried and it starts to go over, as well as the trunk slipping back over the stump and creating an uncontrolled fall situation, this could kill you, and trust me, you want all the control you can get man. I may be wrong but I believe this method is one of the old 'tried and true' rules of the road. As usual I stand to be corrected but in this case I do not think I am out of line. Like ta see some of the regular full-time fallers comment, as I consider myself nothing but an informed (and safe) armature 
.edit: << ^^>>yup I wrote armature lol, sheesh, wish I had another beer, I crack me up lol
Edit> I spaced also the potential of splitting/barberchair, equal opportunity killers, not highly regarded as good practice, sorry, I should have thought of this too.
My wee thought on this fer the evening.
Serge
Oh, giant WOO-HOO, just noticed while muddling through this response that I hit the 'three nova" mark, wowow!
.edit: << ^^>>yup I wrote armature lol, sheesh, wish I had another beer, I crack me up lol
Edit> I spaced also the potential of splitting/barberchair, equal opportunity killers, not highly regarded as good practice, sorry, I should have thought of this too.
My wee thought on this fer the evening.
Serge
Oh, giant WOO-HOO, just noticed while muddling through this response that I hit the 'three nova" mark, wowow!
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x2 100% on all the above!!BB was sort of right imho, the 'uphill' comment' is in my opinion, wrong, it is rule of thumb to use a higher back cut in any felling., I don't care how big a tree. Lower ones can create many dangers imo, and this is reiterated in anything I have ever read or seen in the field on falling. 1/2"-1" above the internal facecut notch is ideal from what the pros say. I think that if you are lower than that this leads to fiber pull that could give you grief if your saw is still buried and it starts to go over, as well as the trunk slipping back over the stump and creating an uncontrolled fall situation, this could kill you, and trust me, you want all the controll you can get man. I may be wrong but I believe this method is one of the old 'tried and true' rules of the road. As usual I stand to be corrected but in this case I do not think I am out of line. Like ta see some of the regular full-time fallers comment, as I consider myself nothing but an informed (and safe) amature
My wee thought on this fer the evening.
Serge
i agree with you , just not BBIt's not so much how the notch works it's more about having a piece of the stump sticking up to slow the butt from comming back towards the operator.
when dropping up the hill ya better make sure the face closes before the the top hits the dirt or the shock on the hinge can brake sending the wood over the stump. ether way always cut above the flat face cut.
clearance
Addicted to ArboristSite
Humboldt undercut guys, with the backcut level and a little above, always. If you are worried about it coming back, which can happen sometimes (like if it hits another tree), this is the best way. The conventional notch is not as good (also wastes wood in a money log) for this, the raised backcut is the only thing preventing it from coming back. Not os with the Humboldt, when she goes over, she is gone.
When it starts to fall you should move quickly away on one of your two escape paths, looking up and out for falling debris. Remember, full, sharp saw, three wedges min. and put your facescreen down.
When it starts to fall you should move quickly away on one of your two escape paths, looking up and out for falling debris. Remember, full, sharp saw, three wedges min. and put your facescreen down.
Sprig
Addicted to ArboristSite
In my honest opinion, unless its not much of a hill and a small tree, there is no safe 'uphill' falling. My feeling on this and well founded.
Serge
i feel the same way. when i say up hill i mean steep:censored: hill!!!In my honest opinion, unless its not much of a hill and a small tree, there is no safe 'uphill' falling. My feeling on this and well founded.
Serge
Worksafe BC requires the backcut to be 1-2" above the notch.
A humbolt cut in the stump will prevent the log from sliding back but in the tree a humbolt cut will kick the top of the tree more severely.
A humbolt cut in the stump will prevent the log from sliding back but in the tree a humbolt cut will kick the top of the tree more severely.
BostonBull
Addicted to ArboristSite
So you agree with him sying its OK to cut a higher backcut when felling uphill, but not me?
You asked for my opinion and I gave it!
treejunkie13
ArboristSite Operative
Beranak's book Fundamentals of General Tree Work has a great section on this topic.
As far as production falling in the woods, with hardwood trees, where scale matters, "an inch at the bottom is a foot at the top" sooo if protocol is followed then you make less money. Just don't let the back cut get below the face.
As far as production falling in the woods, with hardwood trees, where scale matters, "an inch at the bottom is a foot at the top" sooo if protocol is followed then you make less money. Just don't let the back cut get below the face.
Any obstruction in path (hill, obstacle, dutch in face path) can give a slide back on the slant of the conventional or outright 'kickback' if it hangs some. Also, splintering of the spar etc. The humboldt gives the slide to the ground, saves fat end, but i think is also safer with a stump shot/step/ mechanical catch IMLHO. But, fighting gravity to make slant for Humboldt uphill, rather than downhill of conventional, takes more effort, especially on larger fells, at least for my puny person.
Conversely, i think backcut even with bottom cut in conventional is easier to aim; and places more leverage to target (especially with narrow face) by virtue of moving the pivot (compressed part of hinge) down and back further. Changes in pivot points are very powerful. The change in pivot point can get ya in this example, if already too far back in face; whereby you are in the narrowing part of the hinge back field of your tension fibers in a sidelean etc. (IMLHO). So it depends for me on how critical aiming is, whether on ground or in air.
Conversely, i think backcut even with bottom cut in conventional is easier to aim; and places more leverage to target (especially with narrow face) by virtue of moving the pivot (compressed part of hinge) down and back further. Changes in pivot points are very powerful. The change in pivot point can get ya in this example, if already too far back in face; whereby you are in the narrowing part of the hinge back field of your tension fibers in a sidelean etc. (IMLHO). So it depends for me on how critical aiming is, whether on ground or in air.
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Back Cut
IMO the back cut is placed above the face to encourage the tree to follow the intended lead or direction of fall. If cutting uphill or concerned about the butt kicking back I use a snipe to get the butt on the ground and against the stump before the top hits. When cutting up steep slopes, regardless of the technique, be ready to get the H outta there when she starts to go.
Beaver :greenchainsaw:
IMO the back cut is placed above the face to encourage the tree to follow the intended lead or direction of fall. If cutting uphill or concerned about the butt kicking back I use a snipe to get the butt on the ground and against the stump before the top hits. When cutting up steep slopes, regardless of the technique, be ready to get the H outta there when she starts to go.
Beaver :greenchainsaw:
