smokechase II
Addicted to ArboristSite
In the geographic area you work in, which tree species seem to be either the most prone to or least prone to barber chairing?
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Barber Chair question
- Thread starter smokechase II
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Tree Sling'r
Addicted to ArboristSite
Geographical area is the key word. I just expressed my case in the Cutting Tips topic with a fella from B.C.
In this area everything is less than 100'. Its hard to get a good barberchair.
Southern yellow pine or hardwood, it will all split but I have never seen it be spectacular.
My personal best was on the west coast with a small spruce and the co. safety man was standing next to me. It was kind of like two dummies watching fireworks until we realized it was right over our head. We were both pretty green.
The wierdest one I ever seen was in Ak. and never had a saw cut in it. I was a choker setter and the hooktender had just rigged a lift tree. It was not topped. Two 11" Young blocks, two chokers and two sections of haywire were hanging from the tree. He had just got down, took off the belt and spurs and walked away when we heard a noise looked over and the darn tree barberchaired from some fault about five feet up. Sure gave him a scare. Seems like he would have noticed it if it was bad enough to do that but you never know. It was a spruce.
I know alder are bad out there too.
Southern yellow pine or hardwood, it will all split but I have never seen it be spectacular.My personal best was on the west coast with a small spruce and the co. safety man was standing next to me. It was kind of like two dummies watching fireworks until we realized it was right over our head. We were both pretty green.
The wierdest one I ever seen was in Ak. and never had a saw cut in it. I was a choker setter and the hooktender had just rigged a lift tree. It was not topped. Two 11" Young blocks, two chokers and two sections of haywire were hanging from the tree. He had just got down, took off the belt and spurs and walked away when we heard a noise looked over and the darn tree barberchaired from some fault about five feet up. Sure gave him a scare. Seems like he would have noticed it if it was bad enough to do that but you never know. It was a spruce.
I know alder are bad out there too.
Newfie
Addicted to ArboristSite
Ash are always good for a barber chair, oak w/ a real good lean.
smokechase II
Addicted to ArboristSite
Tree Sling'r and JimL:
I'm changing the way I cut potential barber chairs after listening to you guys.
For years I did the triangle back cut that nipped the holding wood corners. Then I went about 10-12 years ago to the bore and out the back. But listening to you I'm not sold on just perfect holding wood any more. I'm still gonna bore, at least most of the time, but will also be either cutting some wood in the center from the face side or nipping the corners also.
Just because I haven't had it happen to me doesn't mean I shouldn't change.
I'm changing the way I cut potential barber chairs after listening to you guys.
For years I did the triangle back cut that nipped the holding wood corners. Then I went about 10-12 years ago to the bore and out the back. But listening to you I'm not sold on just perfect holding wood any more. I'm still gonna bore, at least most of the time, but will also be either cutting some wood in the center from the face side or nipping the corners also.
Just because I haven't had it happen to me doesn't mean I shouldn't change.
I have had Poplar, ash, sasafras and oak barber chair on me,
Bore cutting helps, Ive cut the center of the hinge out on some trees, did it help? who knows. I cut corners on some, especially high $$ logs, less chance of pulling splinters. Every tree is different thats for sure..
Bore cutting helps, Ive cut the center of the hinge out on some trees, did it help? who knows. I cut corners on some, especially high $$ logs, less chance of pulling splinters. Every tree is different thats for sure..
StIhL MaGnUm
Addicted to ArboristSite
I agree with Mike here in New England a leaning Oak and Ash would be the worse..just make sure you bore cut makes life so much easier 
Rob
Rob
b1rdman
Addicted to ArboristSite
StIhL MaGnUm said:I agree with Mike here in New England a leaning Oak and Ash would be the worse..just make sure you bore cut makes life so much easier
Rob
I'll second the Ash. Every time I run across a leaning Ash I shake my head and think back to the days when I would wrap a chain around trunk and hope for the best. I didn't even know about a bore cut until I stumbled onto AS.
PWB
ArboristSite Guru
Had a cherry with a 30-40 degree lean , maybe 15" diameter split about 30 feet last winter. Left wood standing about 10 feet up, did NOT get hung up in the air.
Was a GOOD reminder to be careful. Knew the tree was dangerous, had lots of room to run, etc.
Good thing it was destined for firewood, saved a lot of work............................ :bang:
Was a GOOD reminder to be careful. Knew the tree was dangerous, had lots of room to run, etc.
Good thing it was destined for firewood, saved a lot of work............................ :bang:
Tree Machine
Addicted to ArboristSite
This hickory surprised me.
RaisedByWolves
Addicted to ArboristSite
Tree Machine said:
Probably cause your so young!
Freakingstang
Doctor Freakinstein
had my first two barber chairs last weekend. One was a 16" ash with a 25-30 degree lean. Open face notch, bore and back cut. Barbered about 4 1/2 feet up.
2nd was a 20" cherry with the same lean (25-30). Same deal, open face notch, bore and back cut. Barbered about 3 feet up. First one scared me, 2nd one made me wonder what I was doing wrong.
2nd was a 20" cherry with the same lean (25-30). Same deal, open face notch, bore and back cut. Barbered about 3 feet up. First one scared me, 2nd one made me wonder what I was doing wrong.
There is more than one way to skin a cat. Any tree will chair under the right circumstances. Cottonwoods and maples are bad for it here. I like to cut the backcut with the triangle method, then quickly cut it, sometimes finishing with one hand on my saw. I look to try and predict what will go where if it does chair and make my escape paths accordingly. Big saw, sharp, full of gas and oil.
Freakingstang, possibily left too thick of a hinge?
smokechase II
Addicted to ArboristSite
Possibily left too thick of a hinge?
Freakingstang;
The too thick of a hinge is a good guess. Of course, what actually is too thick of a hinge is a variable from species to species, tree to tree.
Can you get us a photo or two?
Have even a small Dutchman? Did either of the trees start over, {with movement at the hinge}, then barber chair, or did they just split immediately with a higher fulcrum?
I'm pretty well convinced after reading here at AS that more than just a boring back cut is needed. If for no other reason than to guarantee that a holding wood thickness error or off-side Dutchman or unnecessary wedging or pulling a tree or excessive wedging or wind gust or defect in the tree or shallow face or narrow face or a face that matches up with a split will not have its way. Did I mention two heavy duty binders above head level for ground falling?
I'm gonna come out and say that a center face bore and/or nipping the corner holding wood should be SOP on barber chair avoidance.
One of the things that was mandatory with the old triangle, then in fast back cut for barber chair potential trees was that you nipped the corners as part of each triangle cut. I'm certain that was what made that cut work.
Freakingstang;
The too thick of a hinge is a good guess. Of course, what actually is too thick of a hinge is a variable from species to species, tree to tree.
Can you get us a photo or two?
Have even a small Dutchman? Did either of the trees start over, {with movement at the hinge}, then barber chair, or did they just split immediately with a higher fulcrum?
I'm pretty well convinced after reading here at AS that more than just a boring back cut is needed. If for no other reason than to guarantee that a holding wood thickness error or off-side Dutchman or unnecessary wedging or pulling a tree or excessive wedging or wind gust or defect in the tree or shallow face or narrow face or a face that matches up with a split will not have its way. Did I mention two heavy duty binders above head level for ground falling?
I'm gonna come out and say that a center face bore and/or nipping the corner holding wood should be SOP on barber chair avoidance.
One of the things that was mandatory with the old triangle, then in fast back cut for barber chair potential trees was that you nipped the corners as part of each triangle cut. I'm certain that was what made that cut work.
Tree Machine
Addicted to ArboristSite
When he plunged, he was to the backside of the hinge. After the plunge, the cut needs to move forward over top, or past the vertical plane of the wedge cut. Then you do your inside-to-outside through the backside of the tree, and bail. To do this effectively, you need the upper of the two front cuts to come in at a shallow angle. To do this, either, 10 a thinner wedge, 20 a deeper wedge or 3) a Humbolt.
I'm a little out of my league essplainin' this because we have pro's here that do felling, notching and dropping for a living. The world's experts in this are all around us here. I'm not at their level, but I'll clarify by adding a picture, and am open for correction.
I'm a little out of my league essplainin' this because we have pro's here that do felling, notching and dropping for a living. The world's experts in this are all around us here. I'm not at their level, but I'll clarify by adding a picture, and am open for correction.
Nickrosis
Manned by Boderators
Cutting through your notch whether you're bore cutting or making a conventional notch and backcut is risky business. Once it's moving, it has no hinge to work with and could fall practically anywhere - most likely where it's lean is and can bounce off other trees and objects.
So, leaving your hinge is quintessential, at least for the first 150,000 trees that you cut, so I've been told. Beyond that you're old enough that you will probably die first from other causes.
Like other people have said, if you think it's going to barberchair, bore cut. If you feel comfortable doing it and have had good results, take out the center of the hinge or cut the sides of the hinge. It's all about the hinge! I don't have all the experience, but there are a few simple rules here.
Like clearance mentioned, your escape paths should be away from the tree's direction off fall and not directly behind the tree. If it barberchairs, the wood can/will kick up with a lot of force, possibly taking you out or someone who thinks they're helping you.
So, leaving your hinge is quintessential, at least for the first 150,000 trees that you cut, so I've been told. Beyond that you're old enough that you will probably die first from other causes.
Like other people have said, if you think it's going to barberchair, bore cut. If you feel comfortable doing it and have had good results, take out the center of the hinge or cut the sides of the hinge. It's all about the hinge! I don't have all the experience, but there are a few simple rules here.
Like clearance mentioned, your escape paths should be away from the tree's direction off fall and not directly behind the tree. If it barberchairs, the wood can/will kick up with a lot of force, possibly taking you out or someone who thinks they're helping you.
vince
ArboristSite Member
is a bore cut the same thing as a plunge cut and what is the proper way to make this cut. seems like you would potentially right in the path of a falling tree or right behind depending on how the cut is made
