Beer knot

[Lumberjack]

I spent the night making fixed slings out of some 1" tubing I have. I have used the water knot before, but I decided that I would try the beer tonight to see how I liked it.

I also made some short slings out of some 3/4" tennex I had also using a full locking brumnel (spelling?) and burying the tail about a foot.


A question or thought was what about using a diffent knot other that an overhand for the beer. What about an eight or something else? Isn't the overhand one of the weakest knots in terms of strength lost? Has anyone done any test with strength retained using the overhand knot? Would using the 8 knot be wrong?


Just thinkin like always.

 

[NickfromWI]

Good questions, Carl. The water knot is a great knot for tying slings, especially out of webbing and other flat material. The Beer knot is much like the water knot, but better!

I've tried tubular webbing slings with a fig.8 knot rather than the overhand. It was easy to make, but hard to use. Too bulky. (I used it only for rock climbing....never for treework). My way of looking at it was this...common sense would lead you to what you've just pointed out...the 8 is stronger than the overhand...so why not make slings out of the 8. I am sure many other people in the past few hundred years had the same train of that, but for some reason, people are sticking with the overhand...at least with the beer knot, that is.

So, I'd bet you'd be fine with either. I gave up on the tied slings for webbing a while ago. You can avoid the whole strength degradation issue the most by using pre-sewn slings. You can get the strength rating right from the tag sewn on by the mfgr. I keep one or two on my saddle 95% of the time...the 48 inchers come in handy often.

love
nick

 

[Lumberjack]

Originally posted by NickfromWI
.... You can avoid the whole strength degradation issue the most by using pre-sewn slings. You can get the strength rating right from the tag sewn on by the mfgr. I keep one or two on my saddle 95% of the time...the 48 inchers come in handy often.

love
nick

I would but I already have 120' uncut (before tonight) length of tubbing that I got for something like 30 bucks I think.


Carl

 

[Lumberjack]

So far I have made 7 2'ers and 2 3'ers. With the tennex I made a sling simmilar to the woopie, but only having 1 rope, not 2 to make the loop. The pieces of tennex were to short to make a block's sling using a timber hitch, unless you were working with reall long, small stuff, so I used 2 and made a decent sized, medium duty sling.

Carl

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Originally posted by Lumberjack
With the tennex I made a sling simmilar to the woopie, but only having 1 rope, not 2 to make the loop.
Carl

Whoopie and loopies are single hanks of rope

 

[Lumberjack]

Originally posted by John Paul Sanborn
Whoopie and loopies are single hanks of rope

It was an adjustable eye to eye sling. As cool as that woulda been, the finger trap doesn't finger trap in that setup, so I took it apart.

Carl

 

[NickfromWI]

Carl, how far was the finger trap part (the bury)? That could be the factor that determines if it's going to grap or not.

Also, and I bet this was the prob...were you milking it after EVERY adjustment? You're supposed to do this with all adjustable -oopies.

love
nick

 

[Lumberjack]

Originally posted by NickfromWI
Carl, how far was the finger trap part (the bury)? That could be the factor that determines if it's going to grap or not.


Also, and I bet this was the prob...were you milking it after EVERY adjustment? You're supposed to do this with all adjustable -oopies.

love
nick

I made the bury 17" long, and it now locks tighter than Dick's hatband.

Here is a pic of it and the other slings I made last night. I marked the tubular slings with a sharpie on the free end of the beer knot, on both sides of the tubing.


Carl

 

[Lumberjack]

Here is a close up of the splices. What would you call it, an eyoopie?


Carl

 

[NickfromWI]

Carl, can you tell me how the adjustable eye-eye sling works. That one is different that the standards I usually see/make. That's not to say that your won't work, I think we just need to know a little more about it. I can't quite see what is going where.

One necessary addition I would add... You need a stopper of some sort to keep the adjusting part from getting sucked right back in and all the way out of the rope. At the very least, tie an overhand knot there. Judging by the fact that you made that there splice, I assume you can handle the best option...a backsplice.

Pull a bunch of slack out, then form an eye by burying the tail. Pull on the tail, shrinking the eye, until the eye is so small it's no longer an eye. Pull a little harder, bunching up the cover, cut the tail off, and do a very quick taper on the tip of the new core, and suck that back in by milking the bunched up cover back out. Stitch it.

Let me know if this doesn't make sense

love
nick

 

[Lumberjack]

Originally posted by RockyJSquirrel
Hey, what's the deal with the white sock/ toes in the picture? Geez, do I gotta come teach you how to use a camera, too?

It is because my feet are so big. You know what they say about big feet, don't you?


BIG SOCKS!


Carl

 

[NickfromWI]

Can you put a pic of the whole sling? I can't see where the adjustment is happening.

love
nick

 

[NickfromWI]

Oh, I see you got the backsplice already

I don't see any stitching keeping those buried tails from coming out...are you using the Near Invisible Cover-Core Stitch Method?

love
nick

 

[Lumberjack]

Here is a better pic, there is a back splice in the adjuster end. What you have circled is the free end.

Carl

 

[Lumberjack]

Originally posted by NickfromWI
Oh, I see you got the backsplice already

I don't see any stitching keeping those buried tails from coming out...are you using the Near Invisible Cover-Core Stitch Method?

love
nick

No stitching as of yet. I though about running some small cable ties through the treads of the tennex, and zip them down. Stitching tenex must be somewhat harder to do with the bigger treads. The cable ties would hold it IMO. Also you would really have to try to pull out the eye splices because of the locking brumnel.


Carl

 

[NickfromWI]

Just what I thought!!! Yikes! Carl, watch out, what you've made is best called a "poopie!"

There is a big problem with that thing. When you load it, there is no tension on the back and it can slip.

A sling of this type may be appropriate for straight pulls where there will be no shock-loading and on release of tension. There are people that are currently testing slings I made that are identical to the one you made, but under very controlled circumstances to see if it is appropriate to use for tree work, and if so, how. Just know that if you do use it, you're taking a big risk. I'd stick with a straight up whoopie until more is known.

Try this test. Achor one end, have a pal pull on the other end. While the sling is holding the load, put your finger right where the red arrow is pointing in the pic. Very gently use that finger to bunch of the "cover" maybe 2 inches. If nothing happens, go just a tiny bit further.

Tell us what happens. And please, if you do use this sling, keep us informed of how it works!


love
nick

ps- thanks so much for getting the full picture for me...I know, I'm hard to please

 

[NickfromWI]

the stitching...

Find some heavy string, smaller than the thickness of the strands of tenex, and take a few stitches back and forth.

The zip ties pose a problem. Though they will lock the tail, they will put a lot/all the tension on the area where the zip tie is, drastically minimizing the breaking strength of the rope.

And regarding the lock-ness of the splices. What you've made is not a locking brummel. If you hold one side of the eye, and pull the other side, you can pull the tails right out. In a locking brummell, you can't pull them out. Even if it's locking, you still should stitch because you can pull the tail out of the rope little by little with use.

Please don't use those splices with out stitching them.

love
nick

ps- I just taught a splicing class aboard the USS Constellation a couple weeks ago, I wish you coulda been there! You should contact a local boating club and a few of the local arborists and hire someone to teach you all the class.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I tried one of those for a girth hitch to mount hardwear, As Nick says it does not lock well.

They do work well for adjustble balancer legs though.

 

[Lumberjack]

Re: the stitching...

Originally posted by NickfromWI
ps- I just taught a splicing class aboard the USS Constellation a couple weeks ago, I wish you coulda been there! You should contact a local boating club and a few of the local arborists and hire someone to teach you all the class.

Heck you only charge $3 an hour, when do we start?

I tried what you said, and it slipped like crazy, making it a poopie.

What does the brummel look like? I figured that was too easy.

Carl

 

[NickfromWI]

lock-ness monster

Here is a pic to show what I meant regarding the lockability of your splice

JPS, the ballancer would be a much better application for that sling. It is best if the load can be applied slowly, and I know that doesn't always happens once the chainsaw starts running!

But I would be less concerned of slippage there, especially if you oriented the slings in such a way that passing by other branches on it's way down would NOT have a chance of loosening the bury.

love
nick