Beetle killed pine

[clearance]

Who is cutting down these trees?
I have cut down lots of them, they have advantages and disadvatages over live pines, wieght is the biggest thing. I can hold pretty big branches and load big blocks when its dead, not so when its live. The cleanup just sucks, and I often wonder if they will snap off under me. I understand the beetle problem is spread far and wide, interesting to talk about this new thing.

 

[BC WetCoast]

Who is cutting down these trees?
I have cut down lots of them, they have advantages and disadvatages over live pines, wieght is the biggest thing. I can hold pretty big branches and load big blocks when its dead, not so when its live. The cleanup just sucks, and I often wonder if they will snap off under me. I understand the beetle problem is spread far and wide, interesting to talk about this new thing.

It's not new. The infestation started in Tweedsmuir Park about 8+ years ago. (I don't remember exactly now) It took awhile for the population to reach epidemic size and start spreading east. The pine beetle is an natural pest within the pine forests. Normally, its populations are kept under control by forest fires, cold winters and a wide mix of forest stand age distributions.

However, a number of factors have combined to make optimal conditions for the beetle. That is, man has spent the past 50 years putting out fires, so we now have (had) large tracts of overage or mature pine forest, which would have historically been burnt and regrown into young stands. Winters, in the past few years have not had cold snaps early (November) which would kill off the beetles before they form ethylene glycol within their bodies. Finally, the initial infestation started in a park, so there was no active control measures until the infestation went outside the boundaries of the park and had reached a size that was impossible to control.

We have had this situation before. In the early 1980's, an infestation of spruce beetles started in Bowron Lakes Park. Again it wasn't acted on until it had progressed outside the boundaries of the park. The beetle then charged up the Bowron River to Prince George.

 

[smokechase II]

Walt Disney movie

This isn't a Walt Disney movie. Every tree wasn't meant to live forever. Lodgepole is going to die faster than most surrounding species either by fire or insect or if we're smart, logging.

Lodgepole has a very thin bark that does not protect from fire as much as most other tree species. This is where fire controlled the LP populations the most. It's not that we shouldn't have LP out there. It's not just that with attempted fire removal we have built up fuel loadings.

Species stockings have been changed.

===============

At higher elevations, Colorado for instance, LP can be a 250 year tree. Lower elevations it is a 100 year typically. See prior post for cold and LP relationship.

================

Interestingly, historical analysis shows that just after beetle outbreaks we have had only very slightly increased large fire activity. Where things get bad is 7-10 years down the road when all that mess falls over. Ladder fuels.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I often wonder if they will snap off under me.

Any dead tree, especially conifers, I set a rope as high as I can and do a pull test to see where the bend. If it is a natural & above the flair I will climb and rig, if it is at the flair I will bomb everything.

If it is sub soil, then I will walk away.

 

[Climbing Cutter]

Isn't it a nematode that the pine beetles carry that actually kills the tree? Not the beetle?

 

[clearance]

It's not new. The infestation started in Tweedsmuir Park about 8+ years ago. (I don't remember exactly now) It took awhile for the population to reach epidemic size and start spreading east. The pine beetle is an natural pest within the pine forests. Normally, its populations are kept under control by forest fires, cold winters and a wide mix of forest stand age distributions.

However, a number of factors have combined to make optimal conditions for the beetle. That is, man has spent the past 50 years putting out fires, so we now have (had) large tracts of overage or mature pine forest, which would have historically been burnt and regrown into young stands. Winters, in the past few years have not had cold snaps early (November) which would kill off the beetles before they form ethylene glycol within their bodies. Finally, the initial infestation started in a park, so there was no active control measures until the infestation went outside the boundaries of the park and had reached a size that was impossible to control.

We have had this situation before. In the early 1980's, an infestation of spruce beetles started in Bowron Lakes Park. Again it wasn't acted on until it had progressed outside the boundaries of the park. The beetle then charged up the Bowron River to Prince George.

All true. Some of this is disputed by the authorities though, they claim it arose in many places. However one is not allowed to log in parks in this province. Many believe if the outbreak in the park had been logged aggresively it could have been stopped. Don't matter now, its out of control and spreading fast.

 

[Dadatwins]

Any dead tree, especially conifers, I set a rope as high as I can and do a pull test to see where the bend. If it is a natural & above the flair I will climb and rig, if it is at the flair I will bomb everything.

If it is sub soil, then I will walk away.

Problem with pull testing dead pines is that when they fail they come down in a hurry. As long as the bark is still attached they are usually OK, once the bark is gone they become very brittle. They usually grow in a group and I will use some creative rigging in the live ones to get the dead one down. Dead connifer one of the most dangerous thing in my opinion, and have heard of to many failures to play with them.

 

[deevo]

This is one I did a few weeks ago, unsure if it was pine beetles or not. I limbed up all the heavy and dead branches that were hanging over the cottage to take the weight of the one side as it had a lean to it. My original plan was to limb all the way up or as high as it was safe to do. Soon as I got about 60' up there was a hole right through the tree (wish I had the camera to take a picture of it)the wood peckers had had a hayday with it. Red flag went up, not going any further up. I set my 3/4" rope 5' down in the stronger section. Set up another one 12' below it (just in case but didn't end up needing it) Set up the maasdam rope puller with 3/4 block and it came right over in the exact landing zone that I predicted! There were power lines to the right of it which we took all the limbs off that would of been a potential hazard. (we had the hydro company turn off the power while we did it) Everything went as planned and done safely! Took about 4 hours to do, cut up the good large sections into 10' lengths for milling at a later date. Dragged all the branches and brush into the bush 9to be burned in the spring) it was a water access island cottage.

 

[deevo]

Here they are!

:greenchainsaw:

 

[deevo]

I can't say that pines killed by beetles are more brittle than any other dead pine........but I can say that dead pines are brittle here in N/E Georgia!

Yeah the top 1/4 of the pine I posted was very brittle, disintegrated and flew off into all sorts of directions on impact! :greenchainsaw:

 

[Jlarnard]

I have a 60 footer in my back yard. I have no other rigging options as it was the biggest tree in the cluster. I have owned this place for a little over a year. Something has kept me from taking it down, fear perhaps.
It will hold a spike, but I tossed up a throwing line to see how brittle some of the larger limbs were. With very little pull I could move the whole tree but the limb wouldn't break even though I was 2/3 of the way out on it. I didn't like the way it twisted as I pulled on it. But I could not see a flex point, it seemed as if the tree was too easy to move though. I also have to remember that I have an increadable amount of leverage where my rope was at. The wood peckers still get a nice knocking sound out of it, and chunks don't go flying as they peck.
What do you guys think.
I have enough room to set a rope and climb 25 to 30 feet to top it. It's still about 18" diameter at that point. One other factor to mention. I will need a heck of a pull to get it to go where I need it to go.
Any input or feedback would be great.

 

[deevo]

I have a 60 footer in my back yard. I have no other rigging options as it was the biggest tree in the cluster. I have owned this place for a little over a year. Something has kept me from taking it down, fear perhaps.
It will hold a spike, but I tossed up a throwing line to see how brittle some of the larger limbs were. With very little pull I could move the whole tree but the limb wouldn't break even though I was 2/3 of the way out on it. I didn't like the way it twisted as I pulled on it. But I could not see a flex point, it seemed as if the tree was too easy to move though. I also have to remember that I have an increadable amount of leverage where my rope was at. The wood peckers still get a nice knocking sound out of it, and chunks don't go flying as they peck.
What do you guys think.
I have enough room to set a rope and climb 25 to 30 feet to top it. It's still about 18" diameter at that point. One other factor to mention. I will need a heck of a pull to get it to go where I need it to go.
Any input or feedback would be great.

Any pictures?

 

[Jlarnard]

I will snap a few tomorrow and post em.

 

[joesawer]

Unfortunatly, I have been doing beetle trees most of my life.
They are often light in the top and heavy in the butt. The wood wicks moisture even though they are dead.
The top often dies before the rest of the tree and is in worse shape.
The decay can be randam and inconsistant. The bottom might have a hard core and be a sponge all the way through twenty feet up or any number of other combinations.

Jlanyard, these trees don't ever need a heck of a pull. Smooth and easy is the name of the game.
In your own post you where suprised at how moch it moved with just a little pull.
Put a rope in it and take up the slack, then cut it up with the rope holding it pretty much stationary, then pull it over. Get away from the big preacher seat back cut also.
Two of the biggest things I see arbos doing wrong on dead pines is pulling too hard and preacher seat back cuts.
Remember smoooooth and easy.
Here are some pics of one I did a while back. It leaned heavy to the side and back towards the house. I used an adjusted gun and had my girl friend pull it over with a masdam rope winch as I advanced the back cut. It was still very sound compared to what I have been doing lately.

 

[Jlarnard]

I understand the steady pull. The same thoughts I had, take up the slack and pull as I start the back-cut. I am 99% sure it will come down fine, but after all these years of tree work that 1% is huge if you know what I mean. Not to mention there is no money in it
I can't ignore it any longer though, it's gotta go.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Problem with pull testing dead pines is that when they fail they come down in a hurry.

I'll thump them first too, but I start the pull with easy pressure to see where it bends. It's not like I'm trying to pull them over... though I've been known to do it on widow makers, using the excuse that I did it with my throwline.

The ones I hate are the slow deaths where they are punky towards the top, and you have to pull your gaffs out. I had one a few years back where the top of the lean was dead...

 

[Jlarnard]

Here are the pictures. For you rigging geniuses the larger tree next to it is actually about 18 feet away base to base. Also the house is about 18 feet from the live one. I don't want it to go that way.http://larnardsbarnyard.spaces.live.com/photos/cns!EFE136AA3DA6E7E0!135/
I will have to remove that skinny tree with the crooked top in order to pull the top that way. And actually all of them in that clump are on the list, when time permits.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

If they all go, then it is a pull rope to direct the tops away from the power lines

 

[joesawer]

Here are the pictures. For you rigging geniuses the larger tree next to it is actually about 18 feet away base to base. Also the house is about 18 feet from the live one. I don't want it to go that way.http://larnardsbarnyard.spaces.live.com/photos/cns!EFE136AA3DA6E7E0!135/
I will have to remove that skinny tree with the crooked top in order to pull the top that way. And actually all of them in that clump are on the list, when time permits.

That tree looks like it is in bad shape. They decay very fast in the SE especially any where Spanish moss grows. The micro organisms that break down wood are most active from 60 to 90 degrees F and at over 30% wood moisture. That describes the tree just about 24/7 365 days a year in your area.
Is there any way possible to fall the whole tree? Do you have acces to a bucket truck?

 

[Jlarnard]

The only tree service around here with a bucket are the topping brothers.
Thats right toppers. After all the ugly conversations with them I wouldn't even consider calling them. As far as falling it as a whole, I am leaning that way more and more. My biggest concern is for my neighbors brand new sprinkler system. I know where the lines are and I would drop it on several of them. And they dont burry them much down here. But I would rather fix a sprinkler line or 2 than ride a pine stub to the ground.
I decided today to test climb it. After about 10 feet my spikes kept getting quite stuck. I had to wiggle them to get them out. I have had this happen before in a tree but not this bad. Any idea what that means?