before and after pruning pics

[treemandan]

I have to covince many customers that I don't prune for asthetics, I prune for health. Sure raising them makes em look good but I'm more interested in removing codoms, rubbers, initerfering branches, large temporary branches low on the trunk before they get too big and stuff like that. I recently attacked a small red maple of some sort with half a dozen trunks sprouting out at about 8 feet off the ground. It wasn't easy but I reduced all but two leaders. I would like to have only one but it already looked pretty bad. The customer comes out and says are you sure?! I explainied it will look better in the future and might have a chance at growing big and not failing early in life. Did I do the right thing?

Also, I see a lot of these new red maples people love to plant full of cankers as well. I don't recommend them for that reason. Anyone see the same?

Yes, that doesn't sound easy.

 

[tree MDS]

I go into every prunning job with the same mentality, "I can't screw this up so bad that I can't cut it down." lol.

Its all about the facecord eh nails? lol. These days I just charge a fortune and do a mint job - or dont bother.

 

[treemandan]

I go into every prunning job with the same mentality, "I can't screw this up so bad that I can't cut it down." lol.

What really helped me to see how to CUT the trees?
Well, being on my own, no one around ( sometimes naked) ( allright never naked) and taking time to LOOK around. Feel it I guess. After a while you can just tell how long you will need to do a specific tree and do what works for it. Its kinda gay and tons of talk on it and it never ends.
Like painting wounds. Look at it "case specific like" and you might want to carry a can of paint, wound dressing, arbor tie and some dry wall screws in the truck.
If I remove large low branches from any nice oak in the middle of the heat I will apply a little paint.
Personally I don't see why a bug or something would hone in a naturally wouneded tree and not a nice big fresh cut. But the paint is a liabilty issue really. I have seen 20 years of decline in the same region. I have also seen lots of new plantings to.

 

[Nailsbeats]

Its all about the facecord eh nails? lol. These days I just charge a fortune and do a mint job - or dont bother.

Shhhh. That's my secret.:agree2: Tommorow I will be bringing home a gooseneck full, pruning? removals? I don't know, just throw them in the truck.

 

[tree MDS]

Whats all this talk of painting cuts? As far as I know thats an old topic because everyone knows not to paint. I was told you CAN use that Lac-balsam stuff in the tube with the little brush thingy because they use that for grafting.

 

[Nailsbeats]

Yeah, what's your problem Dan?

 

[tree MDS]

Yeah, what's your problem Dan?

Right! lol.

 

[Nailsbeats]

Dan?

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I go into every prunning job with the same mentality, "I can't screw this up so bad that I can't cut it down." lol.

I'm Hack, and this is Slash.

We're the Butcher Brothers,
and are here to cut your tree!

At Butcher Brother's Tree and Roof Taring Service out motto is;

"We can't screw it up so bad
that we can't cut it down."

ROTFLMAO

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Whats all this talk of painting cuts? As far as I know thats an old topic because everyone knows not to paint.

If you read the Shigo study from the 70's he found that in a 5 year period the painted wounds had more decay, after 5 years there was no differeance the unpainted or any of the painted.

The purpose of the study was to find out which product worked better and the unpainted were just controls for the experiment.

So it showed not that painting is inherently bad, but that pruning paint is a waste of time and money. There was some evidence that tar based products killed the initial meristem push ie true callus per Shigo's definition (callus the precursor to wound wood in his dictionary)

Personally I don't see why a bug or something would hone in a naturally wounded tree and not a nice big fresh cut.

there is no difference, it is the same attractant with some vector insects. There is s school of thought that elm bark beetle is just as attracted to the scent of buds growing (think of populus in the spring, how you can smell them down wind) because the adults feed at twig unions.

So one idea is that pruning paint is effective in masking this attractant on a wound when the adults are active. Or in the case of oak wilt, when fungal mats are sporing.

A study in the Twin Cities showed a higher mortality in dormant pruned trees then in trees that were pruned after storms in the summer.

They look almost the same in the pics. If that is "proper prunning" I should have been fired a long time ago, lol. I would have taken that low stuff off all the way back to the trunk and painted the cuts. Then I would shape up the sides and thin and branches growing into the canopy.

I think Nels was being sarcastic here, or at least trying to pull someones chain . He probably would have gutted the inner canopy more too, the meethod I call "raise and gut"

I would have thinned more fine growth out of the top and left some more on the inside, but overall, it's a good job.

Something like that too, but i would probably done more reductions to reduce the number of stems in the canopy Leaving more inner canopy.

Some classes I have been to say branches and leaves in the inside are there for a reason. They are accustomed to the low light levels in there and also feeding the trunk.

That is part off it, green mass feeds the closest tissue first, a bigger factor is that in the heat of the summer the branch ends will go semi dormant and partially wilt. This inner canopy is the only functioning tissue for photosynthesis, so trees that have had the raise and gut are more prone to heat and drought stress.


Ugg, too long, did anyone read all that?

 

[Nailsbeats]

I'm Hack, and this is Slash.

We're the Butcher Brothers,
and are here to cut your tree!

At Butcher Brother's Tree and Roof Taring Service out motto is;

"We can't screw it up so bad
that we can't cut it down."

ROTFLMAO

I like that, good material, lol. and quit blowing my cover!!!!!!!!!!

 

[treemandan]

Dan?

Uhm, I am sorry. Did you say something? I wasn't listening.

I guess the amount of paint I put on an oak in summer is just enought to kinda seal it for while . Usuall gone by next spring after the large wound has callused.
Shigo? No. But just a small theory of mine and really, its for liablity. I wonder about grinding oak stumps next to trees that have fresh wounds.
Also, if the tree goes into decline after I was there I have record of what I tried to do to help.
I have a couple tubes of lac baslam. Why? To cover up my mistakes. And others'. So do you want to know just how much scalped tree you can cover with one tube? I saved some poor fools arse one day with it but it could happen to anyone.
Break a limb on a rhody? Screw it. No , with the dry wall screws you idiot! Really, do you think I would talk SOOOOO much crap if I couldn't EASILY cover my tushy?
So back to pruning is it? First though I have to say that when you can do both prune work and removals that is when they really start to take advantage of you. Anyway... Yes, its tough to see a difference if there is still a limb left on the tree. In all actually a lot of takedowns I have started started to look like excellent prune jobs. Once in a while the client would want me to stop and leave it after i has just spiked the living crap of the thing. And I couldn't really disagree either, other than half its bark in shreads it looked clean, up outta the way... its why I usually only work the lower portion of the tree these days on rope climbing prunes. Things that are bothersome like major dead, broken crap and stuff that is really important.
Shrubs and small trees I have really got to get on the ball with. That is where you see a difference. If you know what to do that is where you can make some easy money. Did I say easy money? Sorry.
Master the tree, then master what the client can really feel comfortable paying. Pin oaks ain't cheap that is for gat dam sure! You got three you got 1200.00 easy. Bothersome stuff, yup. Half the time the guy wants it down cause of the leaves.
Always very concerned about low limbs: stay or go. No simple math, its a tough call. One thing to consider and you might find this odd - the tree don't need you to be anything but you need the tree be something. Now put your lips on this gravity bong I have heating up on the wood stove and think about that for a second. Are your fingers tingling?
Seriously, why would you mess with it if you didn't need something about the tree.
So if you are pruning a tree so it is happy and healthy living safe and beautiful in the world ( I guess this would be a domestiscated tree?) one should be sure not to butcher it by sinking spurs into its veins, chopping off to much of its energy source, and smearing tar all over it.
Ain't to much canopy work in the woods huh?

 

[treemandan]

If you read the Shigo study from the 70's he found that in a 5 year period the painted wounds had more decay, after 5 years there was no differeance the unpainted or any of the painted.

The purpose of the study was to find out which product worked better and the unpainted were just controls for the experiment.

So it showed not that painting is inherently bad, but that pruning paint is a waste of time and money. There was some evidence that tar based products killed the initial meristem push ie true callus per Shigo's definition (callus the precursor to wound wood in his dictionary)



there is no difference, it is the same attractant with some vector insects. There is s school of thought that elm bark beetle is just as attracted to the scent of buds growing (think of populus in the spring, how you can smell them down wind) because the adults feed at twig unions.

So one idea is that pruning paint is effective in masking this attractant on a wound when the adults are active. Or in the case of oak wilt, when fungal mats are sporing.

A study in the Twin Cities showed a higher mortality in dormant pruned trees then in trees that were pruned after storms in the summer.



I think Nels was being sarcastic here, or at least trying to pull someones chain . He probably would have gutted the inner canopy more too, the meethod I call "raise and gut"



Something like that too, but i would probably done more reductions to reduce the number of stems in the canopy Leaving more inner canopy.



That is part off it, green mass feeds the closest tissue first, a bigger factor is that in the heat of the summer the branch ends will go semi dormant and partially wilt. This inner canopy is the only functioning tissue for photosynthesis, so trees that have had the raise and gut are more prone to heat and drought stress.


Ugg, too long, did anyone read all that?

I do John, I do. I have learned some things from you. My use of the small dosage of spray is for the short term. I am no roofer, its to seal out spores and such til the end of the season.

 

[rbtree]

Haven't painted a cut in 30 years.....but have heard that it is recommended for certain conditions..oak wilt maybe? which isn't in the PNW that i'm aware of.


But, I'm interested in where to get Lac Balsam. i've always heard it is good for certain applications. as in filling up a splintered wound from storm damage, perhaps.....and it has no compounds that might be detrimental to the tree.

 

[treemandan]

Haven't painted a cut in 30 years.....but have heard that it is recommended for certain conditions..oak wilt maybe? which isn't in the PNW that i'm aware of.


But, I'm interested in where to get Lac Balsam. i've always heard it is good for certain applications. as in filling up a splintered wound from storm damage, perhaps.....and it has no compounds that might be detrimental to the tree.

Yeah, oak wilt. I get the balsam from American Aroborist outta west chester. Can't leave anything ugly behind.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

But, I'm interested in where to get Lac Balsam. i've always heard it is good for certain applications. as in filling up a splintered wound from storm damage, perhaps.....and it has no compounds that might be detrimental to the tree.

I've heard of it, never tried it.

Here is a search, several places carry it.

http://www.dogpile.com/dogpile/ws/r...e/iq=true/zoom=off/_iceUrlFlag=7?_IceUrl=true

BTW, another way to cover small collar tears is to keep a Sharpie wick marker with you.