Bermie's crane job

[outofmytree]

Nice pics Bermie. Norfolks are a lot of fun but they sure bleed a lot!

I envy your crane regs, over here you cant ride the hook

 

[treevet]

yes indeed. but what about high capacity cranes? 40ft of rope is not going to get you anywhere near the cut spot.

i say rope bag because then you do not have to worry about your line getting caught up on anything or itself on the way to your cut. i absolutely freak out when i throw my line out the tree and it knots itself up and then gets tangled in the brush. cant happen if the rope bag is still on your hip.

38ton with 127ft of main boom, the short rope is no good. i hear what you are saying and i lived by that for quite some time too. in fact i still have the 50ft rope that i do medium to smaller manual takedowns with. also on bigger manual takedowns that line comes up with me for a second lifeline, all coiled up hanging from the back of my saddle out the way. as we speak i have 200ft of double ended spliced line in a rope bag that sits on the hip for our cranework.

absolutely if you are not comfortable doing the crane gig, then by any means necessary do what it takes to feel safe.

treevet, you clean up a spot for a pm yet? (i'm worried BCMA is reading this thread! lol)

:hmm3grin2orange: Haha, the insidious lurking BCMA narc (Mr. Perfect). Prob drives around in a narc like plain sedan and has a ball point pen with a camera in it.

Was referring to the 40 or 50 foot for chunking like Bermie is doing on an excurrent tree(for the real short cl. line). Use a maybe 100 footer on big spread tree as prob the longest pick might be 40 or 50 feet long.

How do you guys (and gal/s) make most of your pick cuts? I like to cut a chunk or lead with a face cut half way in on the boom side and then make a precisely matching back cut towards the pick until bye bye. Got the choke on the back side opposite the direction of the pull.

I cannot relate to all these double chokes I see as how do you get the holding wood to brake? I will use one on rare occasion.

I'll clean out pm's today OD.

 

[ropensaddle]

:hmm3grin2orange: Haha, the insidious lurking BCMA narc (Mr. Perfect). Prob drives around in a narc like plain sedan and has a ball point pen with a camera in it.

Was referring to the 40 or 50 foot for chunking like Bermie is doing on an excurrent tree(for the real short cl. line). Use a maybe 100 footer on big spread tree as prob the longest pick might be 40 or 50 feet long.

How do you guys (and gal/s) make most of your pick cuts? I like to cut a chunk or lead with a back cut half way in on the boom side and then make a precisely matching back cut towards the pick until bye bye. Got the choke on the back side opposite the direction of the pull.

I cannot relate to all these double chokes I see as how do you get the holding wood to brake? I will use one on rare occasion.

I'll clean out pm's today OD.

No narcs allowed dern it:monkey:

 

[treemandan]

No narcs allowed dern it:monkey: or <a href="http://www.sweetim.com/s.asp?im=gen&lpver=3&ref=11" target="_blank"><img src="http://content.sweetim.com/sim/cpie/emoticons/0002039F.gif" border="0" title="Click to get more." ></a>

What!!!??

 

[ropensaddle]

What!!!??

My smiley's ain't working I am getting to the bottom of it sorry

 

[treemandan]

My smiley's ain't working I am getting to the bottom of it sorry

well its ok but you scared the crap outta me.

 

[ropensaddle]

well its ok but you scared the crap outta me.

Thought you were caught ehhhh?

 

[Thillmaine1]

crane it

I have been doing crane removals for a year or so know. Not an expert by any means but I have spent almost every day on the hook doing big nasties. I also spent 8 weeks straight, ten hours a day on The Hudson River doing crane removalswith a manlift and a 60 ton AT mounted on a barge. Needless to say, I have done a few. two chokers is a waste of time. Ride the hook up, set your choker (depending on the lay of the peice to be removed and postion of the stick I try to get the choker on the backside of a wood pick, buckstrap in, have the op tighen up the choker and let your friction hitch slide, (just to make sure the choker doesnt slip off), once taught descend to the cut. Make the cut 10 percent on the stick side,
and 90 perecnt on the side where your choker goes up to the ball. Then when the crane picks the peice, he gains weight by booming up and the peice swinging towards him.
On brushy picks its all about the center of gravity, using a choker and spiderleg combination of just astraight choker depending on the layout. Just amke sure they are butt heavy....I have seen plenty of flippers...it not pretty for the climber...

 

[treevet]

I have been doing crane removals for a year or so know. Not an expert by any means but I have spent almost every day on the hook doing big nasties. I also spent 8 weeks straight, ten hours a day on The Hudson River doing crane removalswith a manlift and a 60 ton AT mounted on a barge. Needless to say, I have done a few. two chokers is a waste of time. Ride the hook up, set your choker (depending on the lay of the peice to be removed and postion of the stick I try to get the choker on the backside of a wood pick, buckstrap in, have the op tighen up the choker and let your friction hitch slide, (just to make sure the choker doesnt slip off), once taught descend to the cut. Make the cut 10 percent on the stick side,
and 90 perecnt on the side where your choker goes up to the ball. Then when the crane picks the peice, he gains weight by booming up and the peice swinging towards him.
On brushy picks its all about the center of gravity, using a choker and spiderleg combination of just astraight choker depending on the layout. Just amke sure they are butt heavy....I have seen plenty of flippers...it not pretty for the climber...

Don't agree on the 10/90 % but do agree on flippers when underestimating the weight of foliage. Of course also do agree as I mentioned earlier that it is great to have the boom pull the piece into itself.

 

[Bermie]

Thill...that's pretty much how the crane operator wanted to do it, so that's how we did it.
The sling was on the backcut side, a little lift and off it came, nice and smooth.

As for sap, yup. my flipline is all gummy and I'll have to use the other end of my climb line...

No crane regs here, basically do what you want. I got the attachement method from a TCIA article, shackle above the ball, friction saver and then tie in, worked really well, the FS was long enough to get my line below the curve of the ball so there was no chafe as I went up or down, and a closed system, nothing to roll or flip out.

 

[treevet]

Nice video I highly recommend...."Cranes and Modern Arboriculture" from the "Committee for the Advancement of Arboriculture" featuring Mark Chisolm. Much ANSI Z133.1 involved.

 

[stihlhere]

treevet

quick question and back to bermie's very inpressive removal. (Looked like you made a very clean job of it bermie) Does the stihl handsaw compare to a silky?

 

[treemandan]

Thill...that's pretty much how the crane operator wanted to do it, so that's how we did it.
The sling was on the backcut side, a little lift and off it came, nice and smooth.

As for sap, yup. my flipline is all gummy and I'll have to use the other end of my climb line...

No crane regs here, basically do what you want. I got the attachement method from a TCIA article, shackle above the ball, friction saver and then tie in, worked really well, the FS was long enough to get my line below the curve of the ball so there was no chafe as I went up or down, and a closed system, nothing to roll or flip out.

Oh just go crane down an oak, that gum come right off

 

[treevet]

quick question and back to bermie's very inpressive removal. (Looked like you made a very clean job of it bermie) Does the stihl handsaw compare to a silky?

Have never used a Silkey, used Fanno's before but this by far the quickest cutting handsaw I have ever used. Very nice process in and out of scabbard too.

 

[Thillmaine1]

Crane

Treevet,
That video with mark chisolm is not realistic unless you have a huge crane and the op is willing to snap off those big peices. Snap cuts that big stresses the crane and are not typically useful to a tree company size crane (boom truck). It can cause problems with your sheeve(where the cable rides over the boom and down to the ball). Cuts are being made as the peice settles and rotates, not made, then the climber swings away for the op to break them off. When I was working with a 60 ton (rental with a union op)that was standard procedure, but it has a lot more power and a lot less care is given to the equipment.

 

[ozzy42]

Nice crane job bermie,and thanks for the pics.
Is that tree a norfolk island pine?

 

[Bermie]

Nice crane job bermie,and thanks for the pics.
Is that tree a norfolk island pine?

Yes it was...seems we have two species here...or there are some real old big ones...the more common type are generally more slender with more numerous smaller branches, then we get some that are much more massive in the trunk with much longer spreading branches. (The more I think about it, these ones are probably just good and old...)
Some of the branch collars on this one were a good 12-15" in diameter...with 6-8" branches.
We made the paper today, a small quote that 'the biggest tree in St. David's, a 90 year old 80' (got the height a bit short) Norfolk Pine was felled in anticipaton of the the storm...' That kinda made me feel bad...but there are now many more high value targets in the strike zone than when that tree was first planted and growing! The cottage nearest it has just been finished being hugely enlarged...family of five...neighbours nearby...etc...
There was smelly discolouration all the way to the base...

 

[treevet]

Treevet,
That video with mark chisolm is not realistic unless you have a huge crane and the op is willing to snap off those big peices. Snap cuts that big stresses the crane and are not typically useful to a tree company size crane (boom truck). It can cause problems with your sheeve(where the cable rides over the boom and down to the ball). Cuts are being made as the peice settles and rotates, not made, then the climber swings away for the op to break them off. When I was working with a 60 ton (rental with a union op)that was standard procedure, but it has a lot more power and a lot less care is given to the equipment.

Not quite sure as to your objection Thillmaine1. It has been a number of years since I purchased this vid. (I have maybe 50 instructional tapes for employees) so I rewatched it just now. There is very little material out there involving this type of aided removal and I think it is spot on.

Are you objecting because most people will not be able to sub a large crane such as this or some other reason? The right tool for the job was this size, I believe was an 80 ton crane. I use a 65 ton sometimes but often with a smaller crane I am using the same techs only with smaller pieces. Although as you mentioned I am not big on the snap (mismatched) cuts as they can tear the saw out of the climber's hands. Making mismatched cuts and leaving the scene and hoping the crane can handle breaking the holding wood is probably a mistake also. Is this your objection? If so I would have to agree with this point although the rest is IMO all very professional and worthy of viewing for instructional purposes.

 

[ropensaddle]

Yes it was...seems we have two species here...or there are some real old big ones...the more common type are generally more slender with more numerous smaller branches, then we get some that are much more massive in the trunk with much longer spreading branches. (The more I think about it, these ones are probably just good and old...)
Some of the branch collars on this one were a good 12-15" in diameter...with 6-8" branches.
We made the paper today, a small quote that 'the biggest tree in St. David's, a 90 year old 80' (got the height a bit short) Norfolk Pine was felled in anticipaton of the the storm...' That kinda made me feel bad...but there are now many more high value targets in the strike zone than when that tree was first planted and growing! The cottage nearest it has just been finished being hugely enlarged...family of five...neighbours nearby...etc...
There was smelly discolouration all the way to the base...

It also appeared to be isolated it seems to me it is almost always the big un's isolated from other trees that fail. Especially if recently isolated through logging lot clearing etc. Bermie you did what you were paid to do no shame in that jmo.

 

[treevet]

It also appeared to be isolated it seems to me it is almost always the big un's isolated from other trees that fail. Especially if recently isolated through logging lot clearing etc. Bermie you did what you were paid to do no shame in that jmo.

:agree2: