Best method for falling dead standing timber?

[Kupreanof]

What is the best method for falling dead standing timber? (obviously you would probably avoid falling it if possible) Species are mostly shore pine, yellow cedar, with some red cedar, sitka spruce, & hemlock. These woods have never been cut, so there are some pretty big trees.

Bore to test for rotten wood, wedge asap/as much as possible, and leave liberal hinge wood?

 

[2dogs]

What is the best method for falling dead standing timber? (obviously you would probably avoid falling it if possible) Species are mostly shore pine, yellow cedar, with some red cedar, sitka spruce, & hemlock. These woods have never been cut, so there are some pretty big trees.

Bore to test for rotten wood, wedge asap/as much as possible, and leave liberal hinge wood?

Yes to boring, no to wedging. First examine your tree from top to butt from all angles looking for any imperfection. Always set your wedges so the tree won't set back on you but do so gently. Excessive pounding can break off limbs or bark or even cause the tree to break off. Also, when you are pounding you are not looking up. Your eyes need to be on the top of the snag. I make my gunning cut rather deep, say 1/3 of the tree diameter and cut the hinge up close. A thick hinge can cause a tree, esp a snag with no limbs to not fall. Plus that thick hinge will require alot of force to make the tree lean to the fall line. Like I said you don't want to over pound your wedges. A thick dry hinge can break from too much force, the the thick hinge will make the tree lift instead of lean, and you will lose directional control.

In a nutshell, swamp out, bore to test for rotten wood, don't expect a snag to cooperate in falling the propper direction, always look up and be ready to run, cut up close fast and leave fast.

 

[Burvol]

Sounds like death to me. Greenhorn on internet asking for falling advice in SE AK...Cream of Wheat Avitar... Talk to Tramp, maybe he can swing up your way.

 

[tramp bushler]

Kake or Petersburg ????

2 Dogs was 100% right on ... Snags pretty much NEED TO BE FELLED the direction they already want to go .......You want a very sharp and straight cutting saw .and try to not have it dogged in ..That way when you get hung up you can get the bar and chain off and get your powerhead away from there hopefully before it gets destroyed ....... Welcome to Arborist Site ... Do you live @ Kupreanof ??

 

[2dogs]

Sounds like death to me. Greenhorn on internet asking for falling advice in SE AK...Cream of Wheat Avitar... Talk to Tramp, maybe he can swing up your way.

Hey, I like Cream of Wheat!

But you are right about the death part.

 

[Burvol]

Hey, I like Cream of Wheat!

But you are right about the death part.

Oatmeal powered here. Old Skool Oats, not the instant ones.

I was just saying he might not be an experienced sawyer let alone faller.

A LOT OF HAZARDS are in stands that have not had exposure. Dead, standing wood that has lacked the wind to blow it down, just waiting to kill ya.

 

[gwiley]

I cut a lot of standing dead softwoods, a few observations:

Standing dead = brittle = LOTS of falling crap = higher risk of ER/morgue visit. You can not underestimate the damage falling limbs can do. Seemingly sound branches have a habit of breaking when the reverberations from hammering a wedge reach them. Make every effort to stay aware of the state of the remaining branches.

Snags can break in the middle of the trunk where you can't see damage from woodpeckers and insects. I have had the top 1/3 of a snag come down while I was sawing - it sucks to feel the ground shake and realize that part of the "tree" just missed you. I never saw it coming - if it had hit me I don't think I would be typing right now.

Hinge wood is brittle in a standing dead tree - you are likely to loose control of the fall much sooner than you would if it were more supple. Allow a wider margin for error.

I have managed to make major changes in the lay for dead leaners, but don't count on it. The bottom line is that the hinge can break very early at which point you have no control over the lay.

 

[Burvol]

I cut a lot of standing dead softwoods, a few observations:

Standing dead = brittle = LOTS of falling crap = higher risk of ER/morgue visit. You can not underestimate the damage falling limbs can do. Seemingly sound branches have a habit of breaking when the reverberations from hammering a wedge reach them. Make every effort to stay aware of the state of the remaining branches.

Snags can break in the middle of the trunk where you can't see damage from woodpeckers and insects. I have had the top 1/3 of a snag come down while I was sawing - it sucks to feel the ground shake and realize that part of the "tree" just missed you. I never saw it coming - if it had hit me I don't think I would be typing right now.

Hinge wood is brittle in a standing dead tree - you are likely to loose control of the fall much sooner than you would if it were more supple. Allow a wider margin for error.

I have managed to make major changes in the lay for dead leaners, but don't count on it. The bottom line is that the hinge can break very early at which point you have no control over the lay.

I'll somewhat buy that but, dead softwoods dosn't always mean bad hinge wood. Your thinking of rotten. Big difference. And you need to respect the living branches on trees just as much as dead ones. Just beacause you think it's dead you pay extra attention....Give it that much respect at all times.

 

[tramp bushler]

Kupreanof Island has some massively ####ed up hemlock snags on it ... Of course the ground is just as bad as the ground on most of Southeast . Not as bad as Dall Is. tho ........ Plus there can be some BIG spruce snags ..., and spruce snags often arn,t sound all the way up . like Gwilley was saying ...I,ve had them chunked is 5 big logs while they were in the air and only just closed the face ... .. BIG Saginaw ( top , conventional ) faces . up to half the diameter of the stump .... Gotta be way beyond careful ...... If you are in the Kake area . give Kevin Merry a call ... He,s an excellent faller .... a couple of the Cavanagh's are fallers .I can,t think of their first names at the moment ........... There used to be some excellent fallers in Petersburg .... I don,t know who is still there ....

 

[Kupreanof]

My land is remote on Kupreanof. I have a few friends here with a lot of experience (retired professional loggers, one of which is my nearest neighbor 3/4 mi. away). I haven't talked to them about dead standing, but plan to next time I see them. I spent months this last summer clearing and dropping a lot of dead standing while living on the land so I'm not entirely green, but yes, I am new to it.

I appreciate the concern, and with a lot of what I see, I can fully understand it. We just recently hooked up the internet and I'm appalled at what I see watching youtube videos and looking at pictures posted here. People are crazy.

I fully intend on taking my time and doing it right. You don't have to trust that and are welcome to insinuate my demise under a gnarly old hemlock if it will make you feel better though

Oh, and Cream of Wheat...do I really need to defend it?

 

[clearance]

I have cut down lots of scummy pos trees. But I have also seen many old growth snags that made me cringe. Doesn't bother me to say they were out of my league. Imho big old snags are for very experienced west coast fallers.

 

[Kupreanof]

Most if not all of what I have been/will be cutting has been exposed to high winds (lived in them April-October so I should know) and is in the open fwiw. Most of it is limited as to limbs as well. Tall straight and dead (wish I had a picture to post).

Since you know the area somewhat, I have a question for you about yellow cedars. A high percentage of the yellow cedars I see are parasitic and growing around other dead standing trees like a snake. I have never noticed that anywhere else in the region. How common is that in other places? It's quite cool.

 

[tramp bushler]

I'll somewhat buy that but, dead softwoods dosn't always mean bad hinge wood. Your thinking of rotten. Big difference. And you need to respect the living branches on trees just as much as dead ones. Just beacause you think it's dead you pay extra attention....Give it that much respect at all times.

I,m on it now !!!!!!!!

. New Southeastener on here I check em out !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

. Kupreanof .. Go to Rockies , in fact talk to Rocky himself .. He,s a great guy who sold me my first brand new bushlin saw in 84 . An 056 Super with a 36" 050 ga. bar ... That was before the Magnum came out .... ...It may have been a 32" bar , but I,m pretty sure it was a 36" aparantly you have a 660 . It better have a wrap handle bar :spam:. If you don,t have a good sharp pair of corks , don,t be tryin to fall timber of even go wandering around in the brush Your corks are an even more important safety device than a hard hat or chaps .......

I don,t to hear no lip from any chechakos or green horns who have never crawled around in the timber in Southeast ............. I,ve splinted guys legs together because of dull corks , and seen others flown out on a strecher because of them ....... So supposing Kupreanof has a 36" bar and a spare , for his 660 . and some spare chains .... he ought to be ready ... See if Larry Young still lives in Petyersburg ... He,s a good hand and a friend ..He logged for quite a while there .... . Also if you need to, Steve Olsen , is an Operator now , but he used to cut ... He would be a good source of info ...... These are all Alaska hands ... So most will look pretty stern if they think you are disingenous ..... And without their help you could end up pissin thru a cathater for the rest of your life , droolin . or dead ..So , It,s best to be careful and polite ..... Read the book .. Professional Timber Falling , a procedural approach , by D Douglas Dent ...........

 

[2dogs]

Most if not all of what I have been/will be cutting has been exposed to high winds (lived in them April-October so I should know) and is in the open fwiw. Most of it is limited as to limbs as well. Tall straight and dead (wish I had a picture to post).

Since you know the area somewhat, I have a question for you about yellow cedars. A high percentage of the yellow cedars I see are parasitic and growing around other dead standing trees like a snake. I have never noticed that anywhere else in the region. How common is that in other places? It's quite cool.

The cedar trees that grow in the Sierra Nevada are often parasitic. They will wrap themselves around another tree, say a Lodgepole pine (aka Tamarack pine) and eventually kill the pine. I think they take over the root system somehow.

Hey Tramp what kind of boomstick does this guy need to carry?

 

[tramp bushler]

Who do you know that was a ogger there ??

 

[Kupreanof]

Thanks for the advice. I'll take it.

 

[tramp bushler]

what length bar do you have . What saw ECT.ECT. I,m very suprised he didn,t aready tel you not to be beatin on snags (wedging)

 

[Kupreanof]

660 (yes full wrap) 36" bar 3/8 pitch .063 gauge... Like I say, I haven't talked with them about cutting dead standing. Talked saws and milling, sharpening, tuning etc... not falling.

All this pressure is killing me , why am I on the defensive again?

 

[tramp bushler]

Welcome to the big timber !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
. The stress is because lots of guys end up dead ..Or busted all to rat #### ...
And no one wants that to happen to anyone ...........Even most enemies ....Yes yellow cedars can grow round and around and around they go .... Dog gone , I already burned lunch once typing this ... Like 2 dogs says , set a wedge in the back cut , but . only TAP ,gently .. don,t Pound on it ........LOOK UP ,,,, LOOK UP ,,,,LOOK UP Always look up ......... A plumb bob is a good tool to learn to use for directional falling ..... There are a million things to tell you . and no time right now ... Talk at ya later ..... Have fun ,,, Be careful .. Pray often !!!!

 

[Kupreanof]

I was joking about the pressure, but it certainly is something I take seriously or I wouldn't have asked.

I am not new to the state or region, in fact I was here for the 25th and 50th anniversary of statehood, got the first round of pfds, got my ss# here, watched a few midnight sun bball games and golden days drags and weathered many an interior winter. Been around Southeast as well.

I'm just laughing because posts like this always turn into a "who do you think you are to be doing..." followed by "well my brothers uncles second cousin saw a tree once, and since saw is what we're doing, I figured I'd be fine."

I couldn't decide whether to just shut up and avoid the banter or mildly assuage your curiosity and await the inevitable challenge. Oh well I guess it stands to be seen if I chose wisely. Your call.