We have started a local Arborist Guild in the Asheville area to help raise the standards in the industry, to increase public awarness, and to do communtity service projects. I was wondering what has been some successful ways to educate the public about the negative effects of tree topping in your area.
Best way to educate public against Tree Topping
- Thread starter tspain
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Uggh, I feel your pain. Unfortunately, we're battling 50 plus years of tradition. I'm stuck in Houston on a pipeline clearance job, and the other climber can't believe I won't spur trims. His prferred method of getting into a tree is hooking a rope up to a truck.
Got to agree here; demonstrate defendable crown reduction. Without something to compare it to, one man's topping is another man's treasure.
Negative Nancy is not a good educational model--or her risk assessment cousin, Nervous Nellie! :msp_razz:
Tree&Stump
ArboristSite Member
I explain how there is no future for a topped tree. Once it's topped, it's never going to be one of the great neighborhood trees to impress everyone who drives by. Also I explain the dangers of epicormic growth, and the dangers of structure decay because of the introduction of heart wood rot, fungus, disease, and insects because of long standing wounds. There is always a professional solution that is better than topping. Most people just agree it's not smart to be topping the trees.
And if you're going to top it, you might as well drop that garbage. Then talk about costs to plant a new tree in its place which suits them better.
And if you're going to top it, you might as well drop that garbage. Then talk about costs to plant a new tree in its place which suits them better.
Tree Wizard Aus
New Member
Great call RE quoting to remove and replant. Much more expensive, and therefore less desirable.
I work in Australia, mostly with gum trees. I’ve found the most common reason clients request lopping seems to be to stop leaves from falling on pools, gutters and paving.
My usual spiel is saying that lopping will result in epicormic growth which will grow faster, thicker, and weaker. This will increase the amount of leaves that fall down, and cause structural weakness in future. “even though I could charge more for this kind of work, and then get more work from you in the future, it would over time have the opposite effect to what you want, and ruin a fine specimen. I would consider this unethical for both you and the tree”
When I explain epicormic growth, I compare it as an elbow socket compared to a natural flow of wood. Clients seem to respond to this.
I work in Australia, mostly with gum trees. I’ve found the most common reason clients request lopping seems to be to stop leaves from falling on pools, gutters and paving.
My usual spiel is saying that lopping will result in epicormic growth which will grow faster, thicker, and weaker. This will increase the amount of leaves that fall down, and cause structural weakness in future. “even though I could charge more for this kind of work, and then get more work from you in the future, it would over time have the opposite effect to what you want, and ruin a fine specimen. I would consider this unethical for both you and the tree”
When I explain epicormic growth, I compare it as an elbow socket compared to a natural flow of wood. Clients seem to respond to this.
TreeToronto
ArboristSite Lurker
best way to teach people is to teach about tree topping what problems they will create causes they can cause sight of a topped tree is offensive to many people but it should not be there from an arborist point of view. You can't "stop" trees with topping and if you succeed, you just have killed them. Proper pruning should be there which actually improves the health and beauty of tree, costing you less in the long run. Many topped trees are considered a total loss so topping should not be there
n in many cities, topping is banned because of the public safety factors as in winter Topping destroys silhouette of a tree..
Repeated removal of the tree's leaves from trees as leaves are food source so they literally starves the tree and The thick regrowth of sprouts resulting from topping make the tree top which makes it heavy and more likely to catch the wind.
n in many cities, topping is banned because of the public safety factors as in winter Topping destroys silhouette of a tree..
Repeated removal of the tree's leaves from trees as leaves are food source so they literally starves the tree and The thick regrowth of sprouts resulting from topping make the tree top which makes it heavy and more likely to catch the wind.
Pelorus
Uva uvam vivendo varia fit
Providing members of the public with this educational ISA brochure is another idea.
The cost is quite reasonable.
View attachment 282179
The cost is quite reasonable.
View attachment 282179
Tree&Stump
ArboristSite Member
I have a whole box of those brochures. For anyone interested in educating their area to raise the level of tree care knowledge and standards, ISA brochures are a significant way of putting your knowledge firmly in the hands of the community.
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Treepedo
ArboristSite.com Sponsor
Talking the dollars and cents seems to work for me.
Decrease property value, increase maintenance cost or removal costs especially.
So many tangibles and intangibles to be listed that I rarely ever get pushed that far.
there is a time and place for topping.:msp_sad: Storm damage for example.
Decrease property value, increase maintenance cost or removal costs especially.
So many tangibles and intangibles to be listed that I rarely ever get pushed that far.
there is a time and place for topping.:msp_sad: Storm damage for example.
cjtreeclimber
ArboristSite Operative
As a climber, I know how easy it is to get up a tree with a pair of spikes and simple reach out and lop a limb in half with a saw. I see these other guys on craig's list advertising for tree topping. I went back to see the trees that I topped when I started doing this for myself as I'm self employed 
Now that I know how to ascend and get around in the tree much better (without spikes) , a lot of trees merely need the leads taken off. A simple crown reduction for a tree is a lot less material to have to manage. People let their trees grow way to large over there house before calling some tree topper of craigs list. I'm thinking that advertising "something better than topping!" could be something that should sell over the non professional competition . . !!??
Now that I know how to ascend and get around in the tree much better (without spikes) , a lot of trees merely need the leads taken off. A simple crown reduction for a tree is a lot less material to have to manage. People let their trees grow way to large over there house before calling some tree topper of craigs list. I'm thinking that advertising "something better than topping!" could be something that should sell over the non professional competition . . !!??timberland ts
ArboristSite Operative
This kind of goes with the isa thread. Teaching the public on proper tree care. We need to get to the general public. Either socal media or tv is the only way to get peoples attention. I wont top a tree anymore. Its hard to covince people not to. Most look for the cheap easy way out for the moment not thinking of the future.
Often when a customer calls for a tree topping it is because it has been done before and the growth is getting out of control. I have had success pointing out to the customer where the old topping cuts were made and the decay around them then showing how the large leaders coming off of the decayed area are a danger. I have always liked car mechanics who bring out the bad part to show me why it was necessary to replace the part and this is the same line of thinking. Educating the customer is the key. After it is all said and done if they insist the best thing to do is walk away from the job. The more tree companies that refuse to do this type of hackery the more quickly it will die out.
Yes I think these are all valid solutions. I think most good arborist are spending more time educating their clients, one client at a time. But, there are equally as many arborist out there that are perpetuating this practice as there are condoning it. The brochures are helping; they put written facts with the information that you present to your clients. I feel that more is needed like being more proactive. We need a revolution. Woa, I'll simmer down now. How about articles in the local paper during key times of year and one being arbor day. Start an arborist guild in your local area and get city oridnances passed that ban this practice, as we did. Become a member of the local tree commision. Be a mentor or willing to apprentice an aspiring arborist while paying him a living wage. Its 2013 so facebook or use other social media. This thread was started in order to think outside the box. We are way more creative. Lets come up with some solutions to an outdated practice. One client at a time, we can do better than that!
old_soul
ArboristSite Operative
$
You can educate all you want, the only time people will listen is when it hits their pocketbook. Why would they pay 600$ to trim it the right way when the guy down the street will top it every other year for 150 bucks.
Some customers, that know you, or have seen your work will trust your opinion but the cold calls, the old guy who has been topping it for the last 30 years sure isn't going to change now.
What i do here is try to give the same price for removing it as topping it. If it is an easy removal. The trees are usually rotten, junk by then from the previous topping cuts anyways. I have found that lots of people actually want the tree gone, they are just afraid to ask for a quote. sometimes we can sell a replacement tree. Sometimes the spot was bad for a tree in the first place.
I know this goes against isa mentality but I would rather take a tree down anyday than be seen hacking one up. If i can't sell the removal I walk, especially if the tree has never been topped before.
Just my humble opinion..........
You can educate all you want, the only time people will listen is when it hits their pocketbook. Why would they pay 600$ to trim it the right way when the guy down the street will top it every other year for 150 bucks.
Some customers, that know you, or have seen your work will trust your opinion but the cold calls, the old guy who has been topping it for the last 30 years sure isn't going to change now.
What i do here is try to give the same price for removing it as topping it. If it is an easy removal. The trees are usually rotten, junk by then from the previous topping cuts anyways. I have found that lots of people actually want the tree gone, they are just afraid to ask for a quote. sometimes we can sell a replacement tree. Sometimes the spot was bad for a tree in the first place.
I know this goes against isa mentality but I would rather take a tree down anyday than be seen hacking one up. If i can't sell the removal I walk, especially if the tree has never been topped before.
Just my humble opinion..........
Pelorus
Uva uvam vivendo varia fit
Oldknottired
ArboristSite Lurker
Here's one more reason to not top:
The massive, though temporary loss of photosythetic surface (leaves) means the tree cannot make food until it has taken a lot out of storage to replace what was lost. This means the ROOTS are going to be affected, and right away. If the root system on a large tree goes into decline, it may recover, but more likely the tree will fall prey to root loss and rot... and then to windthrow.
I have had good success dissuading folks from topping their trees by pointing out the negatives to topping and the positives (including $) to proper maintenance. Not all have seen the light, but most have. Often when I offer to repair the tree from the previous topping (remove stubs and badly decayed sections and thin the excess sprouts to allow remaining ones to prosper and to let some light into the interior) customers are happy to know there is hope and don't mind paying a little more for a secure future.
By the way, here's a can of worms: pollarding is a viable option for a young tree owned by anal customers who want a big shrub. The cuts are small, the practice is sustainable. Only downsides are the winter silouette and maintenance cost every year.
The massive, though temporary loss of photosythetic surface (leaves) means the tree cannot make food until it has taken a lot out of storage to replace what was lost. This means the ROOTS are going to be affected, and right away. If the root system on a large tree goes into decline, it may recover, but more likely the tree will fall prey to root loss and rot... and then to windthrow.
I have had good success dissuading folks from topping their trees by pointing out the negatives to topping and the positives (including $) to proper maintenance. Not all have seen the light, but most have. Often when I offer to repair the tree from the previous topping (remove stubs and badly decayed sections and thin the excess sprouts to allow remaining ones to prosper and to let some light into the interior) customers are happy to know there is hope and don't mind paying a little more for a secure future.
By the way, here's a can of worms: pollarding is a viable option for a young tree owned by anal customers who want a big shrub. The cuts are small, the practice is sustainable. Only downsides are the winter silouette and maintenance cost every year.
old_soul
ArboristSite Operative
Thats an excellent last paragraph....Right there are the key words....."young tree". If you can begin trimming when its small and maintain that size/shaper then thats the way to do it.
I wish customers could understand that like you do. Not like most of the calls I get around here, where the tree was topped 25 years ago, now has suckers grown 30 feet up and 8 inches around.
Them: Just cut it back to where it was cut before!
Me: What? There aren't any limbs there to head back to!
Them: Thats ok, just do it!
:bang:
Educating by Demonstrating, and Relating the Tale
Note his spec--cut locations "based on the size of the cut (the smaller, the better), evidence of existing decay, and the presence of live growth or nodal areas." Howard imposed no artificial guidelines like distance from the fork. Instead, he let the tree call the cuts, and he listened well.
Page 32
TCI Magazine March 2013
But if it's old, then what? Restore form by nodal pruning. This one's by a colleague in another corner of the US. Howard Gaffin did a bang-up job on managing this tree, and a fine job of reporting the story.
Note his spec--cut locations "based on the size of the cut (the smaller, the better), evidence of existing decay, and the presence of live growth or nodal areas." Howard imposed no artificial guidelines like distance from the fork. Instead, he let the tree call the cuts, and he listened well.
Page 32TCI Magazine March 2013
StrataTree
ArboristSite Operative
Exactly, the wallet rules. So got to get the ho to see quality tree care as an investment in the future value of his property.
I agree that this topic and ISA go together. Like the brochure! Perhaps massive plane drops of these all over cities and towns...I think the ISA can afford this... Or maybe...the ISA can run late night t.v. adds, like infomercials!
I agree that this topic and ISA go together. Like the brochure! Perhaps massive plane drops of these all over cities and towns...I think the ISA can afford this... Or maybe...the ISA can run late night t.v. adds, like infomercials!
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