Treeman587
ArboristSite Operative
I was wondering what wedge you cut when topping? I use a bottom wedge to help prevent barber chairing. That and I am bored, so I figured I would poll.
best wedge for topping
- Thread starter Treeman587
- Start date
Help Support Arborist Forum:
treevet
Addicted to ArboristSite
Let s assume were topping a take down for pc ness. And let s forget about the wedge and make and angle back cut from low to high 1/3rd , then put a hand above head hi on the piece and cut down on same angle w 020 w one hand as fast as poss to match the backcut. When piece detaches give it a little shove away, duck or block face a little and shoot the limb straight down like a f cking dart into the ground and hope it will stick in the ground or fall the way you want it to (tree man s luck) and that could take care of some of the boredom. Works for me on some long tedious days.
Treeman587
ArboristSite Operative
HAHA, Yeah I have done it. Except I cut a top wedge, a backcut, and then another backcut up a little higher. Then the wedge acts like a little flipper and the top slides off and goes straight down. I hug the tree and let it slide pass.
treevet
Addicted to ArboristSite
Can t hardly get bored when your scared. That s part of why we love this damn job so much.
maxburton
ArboristSite Operative
Here's a diagram.
1: The "angled cut". I usually cut between 30 and 45 degrees. More than that is rarely necessary.
2: The "bottom cut." I can watch the bar tip through my first cut, ensuring that the two intersect exactly. If either overshoots the other, it creates a narrow area where the wood will pinch, which will lead to barber-chairing or premature hinge severance.
3: (for big or brittle wood) A bore cut. This does two things: First, it prevents barber-chairing. Second, it lets me set the hinge thickness without having to worry about the top going too early.
4: The back cut. It's an inch or two higher than the "bottom cut", to make sure I don't accidentally cut under it and ruin the whole thing. It never intersects with the bore cut, but once they intersect vertically, the top goes.
1: The "angled cut". I usually cut between 30 and 45 degrees. More than that is rarely necessary.
2: The "bottom cut." I can watch the bar tip through my first cut, ensuring that the two intersect exactly. If either overshoots the other, it creates a narrow area where the wood will pinch, which will lead to barber-chairing or premature hinge severance.
3: (for big or brittle wood) A bore cut. This does two things: First, it prevents barber-chairing. Second, it lets me set the hinge thickness without having to worry about the top going too early.
4: The back cut. It's an inch or two higher than the "bottom cut", to make sure I don't accidentally cut under it and ruin the whole thing. It never intersects with the bore cut, but once they intersect vertically, the top goes.
1CallLandscape
ArboristSite Operative
That cut works real well, i use it quite often. But on smaller trees that you cant do a bore cut ( like where i live ) i just move the back cut up to about 4" above your face notch and the remaining fibers between the face cut and the back cut hold the top in place. most of the time it lets you turn the saw off and brace yourself before you shove the top off with a gentle nudge.
maxburton
ArboristSite Operative
There are three very good reasons not to use an open notch:
1: It is much more difficult to get the two cuts on an open notch to intersect perfectly than in a regular notch. If your cuts do not intersect exactly, your hinge will not function properly.
2: There is an unnecessarily wide angle to the notch. Except in some extreme situations, once a piece has fallen 30 degrees or more on a hinge, it will not significantly change direction in free-fall.
3: There is a significant risk, especially if the back cut is too low, that the piece can sever completely, with the cut end sliding forwards and the top falling backwards, onto the climber! I have seen trees cut on the ground this way and the consequences. Not good!
When felling a tree, consider this: any more than a 90 degree angle means that the hinge will hold the tree for the entire fall. It would actually be better to have a smaller opening so that the hinge severs and you don't have to deal with cutting bent fibers and trying to free the tree from the stump.
1: It is much more difficult to get the two cuts on an open notch to intersect perfectly than in a regular notch. If your cuts do not intersect exactly, your hinge will not function properly.
2: There is an unnecessarily wide angle to the notch. Except in some extreme situations, once a piece has fallen 30 degrees or more on a hinge, it will not significantly change direction in free-fall.
3: There is a significant risk, especially if the back cut is too low, that the piece can sever completely, with the cut end sliding forwards and the top falling backwards, onto the climber! I have seen trees cut on the ground this way and the consequences. Not good!
When felling a tree, consider this: any more than a 90 degree angle means that the hinge will hold the tree for the entire fall. It would actually be better to have a smaller opening so that the hinge severs and you don't have to deal with cutting bent fibers and trying to free the tree from the stump.
BostonBull
Addicted to ArboristSite
It all depends on the situation. I use an open face when I am up high, say 60'+ or when I am working bigger tops. I use a more closed face for everything else to prevent the top from acting like a lawn dart.
I mostly lean towrds an "old school" 30-45 degree notch.
This is one of those topics.....
opcorn: opcorn:
I mostly lean towrds an "old school" 30-45 degree notch.
This is one of those topics.....
opcorn: opcorn:
Sunrise Guy
Addicted to ArboristSite
I use somewhere around a sixty degree notch. Since most of the trees we take down are not over sixty feet high, I also set a tag line for my groundies. It takes a few minutes more to set the tag, but then I have never had the "fun" of having a top set back into me, so I figure that the extra time to set the tag is time well spent. As long as nobody gets rope pull happy while I'm actively cutting, everything turns out cool.
i agree with all 3 points, either open face is perfect or you are in trouble while topping (point 3 is definitely big trouble). I use it , because " kicking" or "catapulting" is less severe, or at least thats how i feel it. When felling the entire tree open face is great for the reason you mentioned, i saved countless flowerbeds by hanging trunks like this (ladies love it, "oh you even saved my impatiences" . i never asked "what you were drinking, when you decided to plant them around the trunk of the tree, knowing that it's coming down?)
"rope pull happy" groundie...[ violence and coarse language]
1I'dJak
ArboristSite Operative
out here its all humboldt...in the forest industry that is.... saves butt wood... even when we're standing stem we're told to use the humboldt...even though the stem wood below the top we're taking is the harvest wood...i guess its the industry standard out here....
treevet
Addicted to ArboristSite
This may sound like a stupid question but since it is not mentioned while kind of on topic I ll ask it. You all have no mention of felling sites while taking notch or wedge. Cast in felling sitesare on all Stihl saws ( don t know about others) . I very rarely take a large notch out w out sighting felling sites in air or on ground along w other considerations. Does everybody use them like me whether or not adjustment of notch is nec.?
Treeman587
ArboristSite Operative
Most people do not even know they are there. They think it is a pinstripe or something. But yes I use mine all the time.
maxburton
ArboristSite Operative
Treevet, I think you mean felling sights. Most saws have these- a line going across the top of the saw, from side to side, showing the direction of fall as you're cutting. There's something about these that I never understood: Since the line is away from the center of the tree, is it showing a line parallel to the line of fall, or a line convergent with the line of fall? Anyone know?
Because I don't know, I use a different method for felling. If it's got to be really precise, I stand next to the tree and hold my arms out so that they create my desired line of fall. My hand will point to the location on the circumference of the tree that the saw bar must contact first in order to make a hinge that will direct the tree in the desired line of fall. Does that make sense? Kind of hard to describe.
Because I don't know, I use a different method for felling. If it's got to be really precise, I stand next to the tree and hold my arms out so that they create my desired line of fall. My hand will point to the location on the circumference of the tree that the saw bar must contact first in order to make a hinge that will direct the tree in the desired line of fall. Does that make sense? Kind of hard to describe.
jomoco
Tree Freak
Best Topping Wedge?
The title of this thread is somewhat misleading, it should be (best face cut for topping.)
I was a bit intrigued though because I have on many occassions used plastic wedges to push tops over in the direction desired by pounding them in with my trusty Fiskars axe at heights of 100 feet + for varying reasons, not enough room to fell tree, minimize wood fracturing to maximize sellable wood, etc.
The type and depth of face cut varies depending on where you're trying to put the top and when you want the top to break contact with it's holding wood. The general rule of thumb is make the face cut 1/3 the total diameter at that height.
As for chainsaw sights, they are generally located on both side covers of the saw, and are exactly 90 degrees off the lay direction of the bar, they allow a climber or feller to approximate where the tree will fall if his cuts are true and his hingewood holds. Some of the best tree fellers I've met will make their face cut, then lay a large carpenters square in the back of the face cut and sight down it to ensure the face cut is in the exact direction they want the tree to land.
I hope this helps answer your questions.
Work Safe,
jomoco
The title of this thread is somewhat misleading, it should be (best face cut for topping.)
I was a bit intrigued though because I have on many occassions used plastic wedges to push tops over in the direction desired by pounding them in with my trusty Fiskars axe at heights of 100 feet + for varying reasons, not enough room to fell tree, minimize wood fracturing to maximize sellable wood, etc.
The type and depth of face cut varies depending on where you're trying to put the top and when you want the top to break contact with it's holding wood. The general rule of thumb is make the face cut 1/3 the total diameter at that height.
As for chainsaw sights, they are generally located on both side covers of the saw, and are exactly 90 degrees off the lay direction of the bar, they allow a climber or feller to approximate where the tree will fall if his cuts are true and his hingewood holds. Some of the best tree fellers I've met will make their face cut, then lay a large carpenters square in the back of the face cut and sight down it to ensure the face cut is in the exact direction they want the tree to land.
I hope this helps answer your questions.
Work Safe,
jomoco
Treeman587
ArboristSite Operative
When you are cutting the face cut, imagine an arrow head on the line on the saw, that is where the tree will go. in other words it is parallel, so depending on size, shape, and lean of the tree. that is the GENERAL direction it will fall.
To use these sights correctly however. you need to start cutting how you want to end up. If you start a cut and then rotate the saw to make the sight line up, you wedge(or face cut) will be crooked.
Similar threads
