Best wheel for Silvery 510?

[B_Turner]

I want to tap into the collective wisdom of the forum to see if anyone could offer their opinion for the best wheel for the Silvey 510 grinder. The wheels I use include what came with the grinder originally the SN-021 15R and the Madsens M49.

What I am after is a softish "fine" wheel that leaves the best edge on the cutter. I don't mind dressing pretty often and taking it slow. The above wheels are a resinoid type, and I was wondering if anyone had luck with something else.

On my pro sharp I use the wheel that came with it and the bue ceramic wheel which works maybe even a bit better. Both seem to put a finer edge on the cutter than my resinoids (sort of comparing apples to oragnes I know).
But I am happy with those wheels and not as happy with the wheels I've always used with the 510.

What has instigated all this is the thread on factory chain where ken reports that he can get a faster cutting edge round ground than the factory out of box square grind. That calls into question how good an edge I am getting when I do round because new square almost always does better than my round ground. I didn't think I was too bad, but their always something to learn from others.

In general I have a pretty fair concept of sharpening and grinding as I am a wood turner and grind gouges by hand on a grinding wheel many many times a day. Sticking that tool into spinning wood gives pretty quick feedback.

 

[B_Turner]

Maybe Grande Dog can tell me more about Bailey's wheel listed for the 510, part number 45850?


Or should I post to a different thread to get that info? (Sorry I'm a little new here.)

 

[TopJimmy]

Sorry, no help to your question, but I have one for you. I am going to purchase a chain grinder, but am trying to decide on which one to buy. I keep leaning toward the 300-350 range models that I think are similar to your prosharp, but then I condider the silvey 510. My chain volume will be farily low, so I lean towards the cheaper unit, but it will ultimatly be cheaper to buy the 510 and not buy the cheaper unit only to upgrade to the 510 later. Why did you upgrade? Knowing what you know today and if you were willing to spend say up to 1000.00 for a grinder, but you did not want to spend any more than needed to purchase a grinder that you would be happy with for a long time, what would you buy?

thanks,


Jim

 

[B_Turner]

Sorry, no help to your question, but I have one for you. I am going to purchase a chain grinder, but am trying to decide on which one to buy. I keep leaning toward the 300-350 range models that I think are similar to your prosharp, but then I condider the silvey 510. My chain volume will be farily low, so I lean towards the cheaper unit, but it will ultimatly be cheaper to buy the 510 and not buy the cheaper unit only to upgrade to the 510 later. Why did you upgrade? Knowing what you know today and if you were willing to spend say up to 1000.00 for a grinder, but you did not want to spend any more than needed to purchase a grinder that you would be happy with for a long time, what would you buy?

thanks,


Jim

Jim,

It's always a tough problem because good grinders are so expensive due to the low numbers the sell as compared to chainsaws.

My own philosophy is that I do my homework and then buy something that I think will take me the long road. After a few years how much I paid for something rarely matters as much as if I've got something I don't like or worse want to replace. So for sharpening round 3/8, I would still go with the Silvey 510 myself. It simply holds the chain in place better than the other round grinders I've seen, as well as being reversable and runs cooler because of the bigger wheel. I think it should last a very long time, and parts are readily available if anything were to go wrong. I bought one a while ago, but now I think they are up around $700 bucks which seems like a lot. But the other common ones I have seen although maybe a better bargain just don't seem as solid to use. Whether the 510 is worth double the others is a personal call, but to me it is. If you could find a used one it would then be an easy decision, but seems like people really hang on to them.

But I am a bit of a fanatic when it comes to the right tool, and I more recently bought the Silvey Pro sharp which is actually a very expensive square grind grinder. More like $1900 so that is probably not something you are interested in. I spent a couple of hours looking at square grinders with Sam Madsen and came home with the Pro Sharp. I think it is a bit primitive for the money, but is heads and sholders better than any other Silvey square grinder as well as being really fun and easy to run. So well thought out.

Having now used my well sharpened square ground chain I could never bear to go back to round ground, myself. The difference in the cut between square and round is astounding. Gives you the next size saw for free, literally. Makes cutting really fun.

So it depends on you budget, but for round I still would go 510 even though they seem to have gotten more expensive. My only real issue with the 510 is that Silvey specifies a resinoid wheel, which I find kind of hard and coarse by nature. I am hoping to find something softer to get a slightly sharper edge. But I absolutely love the Pro Sharp and square chains so I am no longer can give good advice. I'm hooked. I could say that I now wish I started with the ProSharp, but there is no way I would have believed I would have given someone that much money for a grinder until the day it followed me home.

And I have arborist friends that now owe me more wood favors because they come over and use the ProSharp because they don't have one at work.

 

[John Ellison]

B Turner, sometime in the last few years IMO Oregon square grind has come off the roll sharper than before. [Refering to Kens post of a few years ago.]
Anyway, I believe Oregon CL and CK and such is sharper off the roll than it was a few years ago. It used to be all dings and not much of a corner, but it doesnt look half bad now. Still isnt like a fresh ground chain tho.

 

[B_Turner]

B Turner, sometime in the last few years IMO Oregon square grind has come off the roll sharper than before. [Refering to Kens post of a few years ago.]
Anyway, I believe Oregon CL and CK and such is sharper off the roll than it was a few years ago. It used to be all dings and not much of a corner, but it doesnt look half bad now. Still isnt like a fresh ground chain tho.

John,

Thanks, that's interesting. After reading you post I went out to the shop and looked a new loop of CL and a reel of Stihl. The reel of Stihl looked like a decent edge, but it seems to vary. It usually cuts well enough that I run it a tankful before sharpening just to save time.

Any preferences between the Stihl square and the Orgeon CL and CLX? My seat of the pants impression was that the Stihl stood up to nails and such a LITTLE better than the Oregon CL and has a little longer wider cutter. I've heard folks say they thought the Oregon CL cut a little faster. The newer Oregon CLX I am told has a bigger wider tougher cutter than the CL, shaped more like the Stihl RSLK. Ever used the CLX (durapro)?

I'll note here that I can buy a reel of Stihl at Madsens for barely more than a reel of Oregon ($215), if I had to pay what most of the local Stihl dealers want I would run something else.

In that newly revived old thread that I absentmindly jumpeded on I mentioned that I just ordered a loop of CL and CLX and am going to compare it to some stihl square for impressions of cutter shapes and dimensions and then do some timings between the three both out of the box and sharpened once square. I don't really like to do timings as they are fraught with inaccuracy issues, but I want to be able to know more than this one cuts faster.

Bottom line for me is still that a well sharpened square is so more elegant and efficient a cutter that I could never go back to strickly round. Bill

 

[Grande Dog]

Here's the alternatives that we offer.

 

[B_Turner]

Here's the alternatives that we offer.

THanks for the link Grande Dog. That link looked like choices for square grinder to me, although I am easily confused.

I am looking for choices for my Silvey 510 and for example was wondering how the Baileys 45850 wheel for the Silvey round grinders compared in hardness to the SN-021 15R wheel that comes with the 510. I am hoping to find something a little finer, and didn't see any more info on the Bailey's site.

Bill

 

[B_Turner]

I wanted to update this thread. Based on talking to various folks including woodsjunkie, I have more recently bought several vitrified different wheels for my Silvey 510 and Pro Sharp.

The most noteworthy thing to report is that before my only issue with the 510 was the only fair surface and heat buildup with the resinoid wheels they come with and that are listed in catalogs to be used with them. I since been using vitirified wheels on it, and what a difference. I have tried the white, grey and blue ceramic wheels now.

First try was I put on the blue ceramic wheel, WOW. A good surface on the cutter, but holy cow does it cut faster and cooler. With an angle change or with major tooth damage the blue wheel cuts grinding time to maybe a third or less - no exageration. You can still blue a tooth if you are heavy handed, but it's cuts much cooler than the stock Silvey 21 15R resinoid wheel.

I am pretty amazed and thrilled and I can tell you the old resinoid wheel is never going back on. I wish I had known this years ago.

For anyone wanting my impressions on the aftermaket blue, white and gray vitrified wheels sold by Madsens (as compared to say the salmon wheel that came from Silvey on my Pro Sharp) send me an offline email. I know where Madsens get their wheels, but I don't know where Baileys gets their aftermarket wheels so I don't know if they are the same wheels.

Also I am about to try a different brand of wheel dresser for the Pro Sharp to try to work around the very coarse diamond bits their multipoint diamond dressors use. I'll know about whether or not that is an improvment in a few days.

Bottom line, if you use a 510 and still use the resinoid wheels you got to try a vitrified wheel! I will bet you will never look back.

 

[B_Turner]

B Turner, sometime in the last few years IMO Oregon square grind has come off the roll sharper than before. [Refering to Kens post of a few years ago.]
Anyway, I believe Oregon CL and CK and such is sharper off the roll than it was a few years ago. It used to be all dings and not much of a corner, but it doesnt look half bad now. Still isnt like a fresh ground chain tho.

Recently I have compared the factory edge of the Oregon CL and CLX with the Stihl square and clearly seen how much sharper the out of box Stihl is. I will post pics of this when I get around to some performance testing of the chains.

I was on the phone with someone pretty tight with Oregon this morning discussing sharpening and stuff and I mentioned this observation. He said Oregon has finally admitted this internally and has begun planning some significant changes that in several months will ensure very sharp chains right off the reel.