bi-annual friction hitch discussion

[John Paul Sanborn]

Sure this is not bi-monthly?

 

[jblimbwalker]

This topic never gets boring IMO. Even if it was bi-monthly.
I've been using different Distel variations for nearly a year now and have settled on 2up 3 down. I can relate to the occasional binding in which Brian speaks of. I currently use 8mm Sta-Set and have even experimented with the 9mm, which of course isn't as responsive on ½ arbo line. I have honestly never tried any of the VT or MT variations although I'm told they are great, I don't think I would feel comfortable with that much slop/braidage in my system. Recently I attended a seminar Mark Adams demonstrated the Knut. I have grown a liking for this simple, self tending hitch, but still haven't converted to full time use. Hey, anything beats the tautline and Blakes. To the guys still using either: Scrap it and move on to the closed system hitchs.
Let us know what you think of the LJS Brian. I've been comtemplating buying one for a couple of weeks now.
Ya'll take it easy.

 

[rahtreelimbs]

I purchased the original version of the LJ when it first came out. I tried it a few times and it sat for over a year until Jonny at Sherrill was kind enough to take it back. I was at at a low level of experience at that time. The LJ released and grabbed to quickly for my tastes. I'm now on the VT, 8mm Sta-Set at 54 inches before the knots. I am using a 4 wrap - 3 braid configuration. I like it a lot. The only thing I don't like is that that the 4 top wraps sometimes spin 180 degrees and the top wrap has a habit of coming down leaving me with 3 wraps. Does anyone know a way to prevent this? Thanx, Rich.

 

[Stumper]

My own course was "improved tautline"(open prussik to Schwabisch to VT and now Distel. I still like the Vt but the distel tends better for me and doesn't drop that top wrap like Rich mentioned. Cord wear hasn't been an issue fro me-probably because I don't climb that much and don't do rapid descents.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Rich, try the MT instead, where you reverse the wind between the wraps and "braids".

I'll sometimes drop a wrap, but not as often.

Another thing I like about MT/VT is that you can play with it more if you are climbing on different ropes. Like with the Fly, 3:3 will grab too much so i go with 3:2.

 

[rahtreelimbs]

Originally posted by John Paul Sanborn
Rich, try the MT instead, where you reverse the wind between the wraps and "braids".


Can someone provide a pic of the MT. Thanx, Rich.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

It's in the "Companion" 2nd Ed.

 

[rahtreelimbs]

The only difference that I can see in the Companions 2nd. edition is that the MT is tied with prusik loop or webbing sling. The knot is tied the same for both. Page #84. Am I missing something?

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I no longer have my copy.

The VT you braid down the same direction as the wwraps, the MT you reverse the direction so that the coil is trapped then brais down with one leg on the bottom with every wrap. Some people will keep the bottom leg straight and just wrap the top one.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i been taking another round at Brian's 5/16" w/VT, kinda getting it figured out this time i guess, haven't used it that much though.

Under the top set of coils, as the 'braids' start. i bring top of coil line under bottom coil line, and maintain that pattern for 2-3 braids, trying to feel out what is maximum. What theories have ye on that?

i tie barrel/anchor to self for the eyes, and leave them for the life of the chord. In the 3/8 i gave up on an idea, that fits better here. i put clear hose/oversize aquarium airline in the eye before tying barrel. On 3/8, seemed fairly sloppy; on here nice fit, smooth on/off karab. Also maintains a reminder what the line is'sposed to look like.

Seems to werk'fer me.

:alien:

 

[Eagle1]

I am getting ready to play slow and low with the vt. I am always so slow to change and trust something new. It took me forever to start using my micro-grab w/ flip line. Now, I cant imagine the old days.
About the vt, I need some answers. Please be patient. I understand that it is a friction hitch ON your line!!?? How do you secure the other end of the climbing line? One end is secured to your D ring on your harness, after you crotch over what do you do with that end?
I love the blake. I do alot of clear desending with only the blake. I trust it but I want something to ascend eaiser with.

 

[Stumper]

Eagle, You can of course use a line with a spliced eye but many of us simply tie the end of the rope to a safety snap or 'biner. Personally I use a buntline hitch topped with a half hitch around the standing line. Your Tress cord that is used to make the friction hitch (VT Distel or whatever) is secured to another 'biner. Recrotching is a cinch since all you have to do is unclip the biner on the end of the line and move it. It is a split tail system with the highest security since both ends of your 'tail' (now called a tress cord) are secured to a 'biner. No hitch can roll out. (Well, if you are using a knotted end termination it technically could- but buntlines and anchor bends are not prone to that sort of thing like a tautline is.)

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

One end terminates at your saddle, traces over support and down past climber for the seperate friction hitch piece(split tail-split off piece of another line for friction hitch, instead of using 'tail' of climbing line) to ride/adjsut on, connecting to climber. Kinda like a self contained 2/1 (2 support lines to climber), w/ seperate sliding, wearable hold device made of disposable line piece, making a split tail climbing system, rather than single line (line and slide adjuster as one peice).

Both ends of the VT chord terminate at a single karab/D, rest is like a split tail system i think. You might play with distel first, for high improvement, simpler hitch (3/1 or 4/1 tautline/clove lacing) of the 'both ends of split tail bear weight genre', that also advance/ tend easier. Or just step carefully through VT, experimenting from there.

In using one of the chords, you might terminate both ends with barrel (anchor to self) loops, or some say spliced eyes. You, also might find a chord tied straight to side D, and line tailed through D, to make D a tender to be a better lanyard adjuster than microscender even with twisted clevis. Or just another point to play and feel this system out.

Orrrrr something like that
:alien:


Ooooops, out typed by Stumper again.....

 

[mikecross23]

I've been using 5/16" New England Sta-Set for a while now with a 4 over 1 distel. It likes to bind up on me all the time though. Not so bad when I use it on my safety blue which seems to have a harder feel than my other climbing line, Sherrill's Pro Stripe, which is a soft rope. That soft rope matched w/ the soft tres cord does NOT work well for me. I've been dealing w/ it binding and locking up until last week when I couldn't take it anymore and ordered some T-900. I remember hearing T-900 is a lot stiffer so i hoped it would release better. I tied it the same lenght as the Sta-Set but couldn't tie it with 4 wraps over one b/c it was too stiff. I tried it three over one and did a pine removal Friday with the new variation. Worked good at first, then it got gummed up w/ pine sap. We'll see how the 3 over 1 works next week. I will tie a 4 over 1 w/ the T-900 also. One day I might get around to trying the VT. I want to conquer the distel first.

-Mike-

 

[mikecross23]

Originally posted by Eagle1
I trust it but I want something to ascend eaiser with.

If you want an easy ascent, learn and get comfortable w/ an advanced hitch and use a petzl pantin on your ankle. The pantin will self tail the rope for you (take out the slack) and it saves some of your upper body strength duing the climb.

-Mike-

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Originally posted by RockyJSquirrel
John-
By trapping the wraps you eliminate the hitch's ability to release easily.

Actually I find that dropping a braid can fine tune the MT effectively.

Might be our differance in weight makes the differance in the hitch.