Black Oak

[Eagle1]

Hey All. I have a question but I will start with the story. I was removing a large black oak. Prob 60 feet. I limbed as I climbed and got to the top. This job was on a construction to be location so I did not have to do any rigging but the tree had to be climbed. So, As I started chuncking down 2" pieces I was hearing a cracking noise. Then I noticed that the tree was starting to seperate (split). I came down and maneged to fell the 40" trunck that was left. The crack (split )was all the was to the stump. My question is could I have continued chuncking down? What could have happeded? the trunck never split, but had a crack all the way down.????

Thanks

 

[NickfromWI]

This seems fishy. From the picture that formed in my mind when I read your post, I would have gotten outta that tree. But if you coulda felled it at that point anyway, then I'd left then no matter what.

Felling split/cracking trees can be tricky business.

I'd like to hear more details. What made it split? Were there visible defects to start with?

love
nick

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

The nature of wood is that it does split with the grain fairly easy.
Why the tree was split is the question. My geuss is it may have either been hit by lightnig, or had a huge wind load at some point.
If the crack was tight enough that you didn't see it, my bet would be that it did not weaken the tree much. Usually a split tree would be weak if the forces where pulling it apart at the split, but as a whole, the tree would still maintain strength.
You might have wanted to secure the two haves together, and be careful as you cut chunks that they didn't come apart and hit you or miss the landing point, but otherwise without extensive decay, it should be ok.

Did the spar fall in half when you dropped it?

 

[geofore]

cracked/risk

The tree that splits causes one particular problem even if you strap or rope it to keep it from separating futher. Your saw will bind (individual cutter is caught by splinters of wood) as it cuts through the crack dramatically increasing the probability that you will be getting a kickback from the saw in the crack. The next problem is you are cutting a 2' piece and have two halves to chuck down instead of one, so you are stopping half way through the cut to push wood off and then cutting the other half, doing twice as much work while the saw is more than twice as likely to kickback on you.

Put a rope around at the top, climb down to drop the stick. The rope around the top is so the tree does not separate as you do the face cut and back cut standing on the ground. You may want to put another rope around just above your cut so half the tree does not take off early. Anytime you have a split the two pieces of wood can move independant of one another and bind the saw causing it to kickback at you or pinch tight in the wood. That's why you have a backup saw some wedges and hammer to get yourself unstuck.

The added risks, the tree may split all the way with you in it, the saw is much more likely to catch a splinter and kickback at you with every cut. Staying in the tree you wear yourself out twice as fast. Get out of the tree.

 

[geofore]

troll factor

Aureo hamo piscari, he's using the golden hook to go fishing Rocky. Read his profile, then translate his post. I'm new at this and do lawns but I managed to drop this one. Would I win the Darwin Award on my first try if I'd have stayed in the tree? He explains he can bomb this one down, no targets. An easy job but for the split. An easy job (3) on a scale of 1-10 just jumped to a (6) when he heard/saw the crack open (pucker factor went off the scale) been there, done that. Thought what am I doing up in this tree? If he stays in the tree the kickback will knock him out if he isn't tied in well or he'll jump out ducking the saw. Then he could do what I did the first time and send his saw flying when he can't hold onto it as it grabs a splinter. My big saw landed about 45' from the tree and cost $400 to fix the broken parts. Had to climb down, drop the stick with the trim saw and 14" bar. The guys would do this juke motion (like they were feeding the chuck' n' duck) and go Oh Sh*T !!! around me for days after that.

If he's trolling, he got me. It's not like I never made a bad move learning how to do tree work. Pucker factor should be enough to give him pause to rethink his next move. Just trying to save him a bit of embarassment. Of course now he won't suck it up, stay in the tree and be humbled by a flying saw.

 

[Eagle1]

ok, let me clarify. The tree had no visible signs of a crack or split. Only after I started chunking down did I hear a cracking noise. The crack was about 5" in a 16" diameter. Each time I would cut a spar of 2' (not 2" a typ-o) I would hear the crack again. When I came down and cut the stick. It did not split on impact. It never split, just had that 5" crack in the middle. My question was could I have chuncked it down or was comming down the best wasy. It had to be cut up for fire wood for the homeowner so cutting it in the tree or the ground was just the same to me if the tree could have handled it. And I am starting to think it would have.

 

[Eagle1]

Oh hea, whats wrong with the profile?

 

[Lumberjack]

Another thing, cutting perpindicular to the crack would reduce the spreading forces, and the chance of the chainsaw kicking back, as long as you have a drop zone that would permit it. Also as you climbed up, and put large racheting staps or the equivilant at the middle, 3/4 up and then put a rope around below where you are cutting. That should keep the tree together, and let you chunk it down.

Did the crack go all the way through the tree, and out the bark, so it was 2 halves?


Carl

 

[Eagle1]

No the crack stayed in the middle about 2" from either side of the bark.

 

[kf_tree]

eagle
was it just checking across the center of the cut? right at the center, was it popping a bit and spreading? or are you talking about vertical splits an the outside?

 

[Eagle1]

popping, snaping noise in the middle. What you said ounds the most accurate

 

[kf_tree]

i can't accuratly judge the safety of the tree you were in but thats pretty common when chunking down "the tree that grows in brooklyn sticks". as your making the cut you hear some pops, push the piece off then watch the split spread a bit. there was one time i shut the saw off,to listen. it was poping so much i was feeling it in my spurs. i always stayed up on them and pieced them down with out a problem.

DISCLAIMER. every situation is different and requires a judgement call but you probably would have been ok to stay on the stick.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Sometimes i take my handy dandy loop runner/ carabiner setup and bind before cut. sometimes i calculate the weight of a rigged limb (bloked out on it self) as a compressive force to bind any potential cracking, to maintain same shape.

Had one once, dead large oak between power lines and house in the small back yard, split about 15 ' straight up to main /twin , massive crotch as the BackCut came thru. i had bound suspect things with chain or trucker's tiedowns before, but this had a ~1 1/2" threaded rod thru the twin mains above, so i thought i was safe, no apparent cracks etc., save that bar that sopmeone had thought necessary to put in... Bent that rod like a pretzel in the air as it came apart too; and that time i did hit the house!! Not toooooo bad, cost less than $150 fer soffit, board and gutter etc. right on the corner(old prices). Now i bind all suspect stuff, to keep it from shifting form from strongest shape/align-meant.

Or something like that.

:alien:

 

[MasterBlaster]

Usually, the biggest problem is the saw binding. As posted earlier, you would probably have been okay working out the spar.

But I would really need to see it.

 

[geofore]

Profile

Profile is fine it just gives little info and no birthday so I don't know how long you may have been doing trees. You appear to be new, few posts. Not enough information in the first post but I went for it anyway.

Now with more info on tree, you would have been okay if the checks did not go side to side and open the tree into two halves. Checks are normal and you may see them in multiple directions but not make the outside edge. It's just that the noise is something you learn to read after years of practice and then you may not always get it right. Pushes the pucker factor up when you feel and hear it checking the first few times. My first impression was the split opened the tree into two halves, top to base. kf-tree has it right just checking across the center, less dangerous. Spydy eludes to the fact that a tree that splits (lots more danger) may take off in the wrong direction and not follow the normal felling instructions you give it with the felling cuts.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Geo, you've got me concerned.
A saw flew out of your hands???
Pieces falling in the wrong direction?? Danger everywhere? Kickback from cutting a split hunk of wood?
Maybe a little more time cutting on the ground is in order.

An easy way to control split wood is to cut perpendicular to the split, so both halves have some notch and back cut.

 

[geofore]

MikeMaas

Funny Mike, years ago when I was on the otherside of the learning curve and tree work was new to me, I was way too cocky thinking no tree out there could get the best of me, running to catch the Darwin Award. Just that this post reminded me of a tree that almost got me the Award. Everything about that tree and what went (I did) wrong said don't do this again. Now I'm older and wiser or something like that.