blocking down onto tiles/pavers
- Thread starter imagineero
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Ply works great, but if your blocking down from height you cant still put alot of hitting force on the ground below, So ply for the bottom layer or layers, sacks of mulch on top. (you can add tyres if its really a hard lot of hits) For us the advantage is that we are often working on steep ground so you can set up the sacks to be level and nested to "catch" chogs.
We worked a line of 4 x 40 foot pines on top of a 15foot tall bank, bank was sloped out just enough that lowering down it would have disturbed to much rock on the bank or taken to many man hours. Using this method 2 guys were able to bust it out in a couple days at less than half the cost of the next bidder, and we did it in a day less than we quoted. No rigging, no damage, just a good ole bombing mission.
I have nothing against rigging, I have brakes, a hobbes, a couple grcs, but if you can do a clean fast bombing run, just call me Avro Lancaster
We worked a line of 4 x 40 foot pines on top of a 15foot tall bank, bank was sloped out just enough that lowering down it would have disturbed to much rock on the bank or taken to many man hours. Using this method 2 guys were able to bust it out in a couple days at less than half the cost of the next bidder, and we did it in a day less than we quoted. No rigging, no damage, just a good ole bombing mission.
I have nothing against rigging, I have brakes, a hobbes, a couple grcs, but if you can do a clean fast bombing run, just call me Avro Lancaster
BuckmasterStumpGrinding
ArboristSite Operative
Fishing oak out of the bottom of a pool sucks. 
Not in the summer.Fishing oak out of the bottom of a pool sucks.
old_soul
ArboristSite Operative
Thats interesting, i've seen the crash pads on lawns but never ever on surface like tile. Maybe its different in australia but around here pools are expensive. So it is usually an uppper end client. Which means they expect us to be professional about it. Which means everything comes down in a controlled manner. rigging, speedline, crane, whatever option fits best.
I can't even imagine bombing onto a pool deck (much less into the pool
) and taking the risk of damaging something just because I didn't feel like rigging down the spar.It doesn't matter if the owner did agree to it, something takes one bad bounce and now there's thousands in repair costs. And just to save an hour of time? just does not make sense to take a risk like that in the first place
greg storms
ArboristSite Operative
ALL GOOD IDEAS, added to the memory bank+. However, I prefer to keep the pool clean for a cool down with the gawkers. They gawk at my work, then I cool down and gawk at theirs.
Thats interesting, i've seen the crash pads on lawns but never ever on surface like tile. Maybe its different in australia but around here pools are expensive. So it is usually an uppper end client. Which means they expect us to be professional about it. Which means everything comes down in a controlled manner. rigging, speedline, crane, whatever option fits best.
I can't even imagine bombing onto a pool deck (much less into the pool
It doesn't matter if the owner did agree to it, something takes one bad bounce and now there's thousands in repair costs. And just to save an hour of time? just does not make sense to take a risk like that in the first place
It doesnt matter who the client is, you have to do every job avoiding damage as safely and efficiently as possible. I have clients who are on a pension, and can less afford for the breakage of a 20 dollar terracotta pot than one of my clients whose worth a few hundred million if a 30,000 fountain gets busted. Of course its me who pays but why treat them differently? At what pay scale do you decide to act professionally?
If the pads made well and maintained during the job, nothing bounces more than a few inches, its not the answer to all jobs but in some its simple, fast and lower risk than rigging.
Most of the time the more factors you add to a rigging job, the more things that can potentially go wrong.Often around pools, things are very restrictive, you have underplantings, lights and walls that are going to get nailed by the guy operating the grcs or brake or if something swings a few feet from the trunk in the blocking down.
I can do all manners of complex rigging, but sometimes simples best for all involved.
FanOFatherNash
ArboristSite Operative
you are a super dooper pro and all, and sure this is what pros would do
i am just not seeing the risk on this being worth it , not sure ,but arent pools very expensive if you have a mishap
arborlicious
ArboristSite Member
I hear ya Shaun. I'll always try and block down before snatching. Trying to get the groundies to build a high pile in the landing zone is another story.
Have only had to lower Cocos Palms (Queen Palms) a couple of times. Gotta put notches in to stop the ropes/slings slipping.
On one job I've had to lower the 5ft+ long seed pods since the palms are next to a pond filled with huge koi carp individually some are worth > $10,000. Don't want to be the one who has to remove those palms.
imagineero
Addicted to ArboristSite
We've done a few jobs near koi ponds for cantonese clients and always specify that mitigation is the clients responsibility in the contract for the $$$ involved, and always recommend the removal of the fish and covering of the pond. Tarps just aren't enough. From memory the contamination tipping point for the water is a concentration of oil:water of 1 part per million which is approximately a teaspoon in a typical aus backyard pool. Not to mention the tanins in some of the stringy barks and tallow woods.
Maybe it is different here from in the states but pools are just so common here. Even in the poorer suburbs, a lot of people have them, though a lot of them aren't really that well looked after and in winter some people just let them go green rather than taking care of them. Not every client has the money or the desire for "don't harm a blade of grass" tree work, and to be honest I find those that do are often not willing to pay the true cost of such a service anyhow. Most of our bread and butter residential work is average Joes who need a tree removed for whatever reason and it's a big cost for them, and no where near as exciting as a big screen TV or registration on your car. Plenty of these folks will let that dangerous tree go till it's really too late, then it drops a branch through the roof. Then they let it go a little further. Then they get some quotes and think about it for a year or so. Some trees just are inherently dangerous, and you can't get equipment at them. Even if you could, they don't want to pay for it. This kind of customer will generally accept some small amount of damage (couple of fence pailings, torn up lawns) in return for saving some money. What if you have a tree that's a sketchy pullover and might knockout a section of fence if the hingewood wasn't sound, but if it went well would save a whole day of climbing? The price difference between dropping it and climbing it could be enough to cover the repair of that section and then some, or be put towards a complete new fence if that fence needs replacing anyhow. And if there's an 80% chance of it going right, a lot of people on a limited income appreciate the offer and are willing to take the risk. Amazing how often it works in their favor!
If the original price is way out of their range I give 'em both options and win a lot more jobs than the guys who quote with no damage. At the end of the day minor damage like that isn't a big deal in a low dollar home which may already be quite run down and not have a great lawn or be in need of a new fence anyhow. So yeah, in some cases if there is no drop zone and the pool is ******, I'll ask if we can bomb it in the pool and save some money for them. I've done it plenty of times, and never had an issue. It makes a mess for sure, but water is a hell of a crash pad. Always take the pool cover off if you're working by a pool too, insist on it. Those things are brittle as all hell and a leaf will just about puncture them! Some guys complain about getting a bit of sawdust in the pool but you can bet dollars to doughnuts if you don't take the thing off it's going to get damaged.
Did this awful thing here today. The two tones on the ground are painted concrete (bluish) and pavers (purplish). Yeah they covered the whole yard, not a spot of grass to be seen. Of course the tree was spready with no good high point and all over that awning, the roof, a satellite dish, a garage, and colorbond fencing on two sides. Too high to drop anything, To low to swing anything without hitting stuff. Of course the tree was partly rotten and termite infested with some signs of compression bucking and cracking in some of the leaders meaning you don't want to go shock loading the thing :-(
This isn't a high dollar home and is in one of the poorer suburbs. Maybe its a cultural thing but certain ethnicities just hate grass and want to cover every inch with concrete, tiles and pavers, usually done themselves on weekends to a poor standard. It was a miserable day, and of course it rained. Got the thing done in the end but had an unpleasant time negative rigging a lot of it down. With no good high point being way out on a limb it's a ****** experience and shakes all hell out you no matter how smooth the guy in the rope is. Bring on the ply boards and crash pads!
Maybe it is different here from in the states but pools are just so common here. Even in the poorer suburbs, a lot of people have them, though a lot of them aren't really that well looked after and in winter some people just let them go green rather than taking care of them. Not every client has the money or the desire for "don't harm a blade of grass" tree work, and to be honest I find those that do are often not willing to pay the true cost of such a service anyhow. Most of our bread and butter residential work is average Joes who need a tree removed for whatever reason and it's a big cost for them, and no where near as exciting as a big screen TV or registration on your car. Plenty of these folks will let that dangerous tree go till it's really too late, then it drops a branch through the roof. Then they let it go a little further. Then they get some quotes and think about it for a year or so. Some trees just are inherently dangerous, and you can't get equipment at them. Even if you could, they don't want to pay for it. This kind of customer will generally accept some small amount of damage (couple of fence pailings, torn up lawns) in return for saving some money. What if you have a tree that's a sketchy pullover and might knockout a section of fence if the hingewood wasn't sound, but if it went well would save a whole day of climbing? The price difference between dropping it and climbing it could be enough to cover the repair of that section and then some, or be put towards a complete new fence if that fence needs replacing anyhow. And if there's an 80% chance of it going right, a lot of people on a limited income appreciate the offer and are willing to take the risk. Amazing how often it works in their favor!
If the original price is way out of their range I give 'em both options and win a lot more jobs than the guys who quote with no damage. At the end of the day minor damage like that isn't a big deal in a low dollar home which may already be quite run down and not have a great lawn or be in need of a new fence anyhow. So yeah, in some cases if there is no drop zone and the pool is ******, I'll ask if we can bomb it in the pool and save some money for them. I've done it plenty of times, and never had an issue. It makes a mess for sure, but water is a hell of a crash pad. Always take the pool cover off if you're working by a pool too, insist on it. Those things are brittle as all hell and a leaf will just about puncture them! Some guys complain about getting a bit of sawdust in the pool but you can bet dollars to doughnuts if you don't take the thing off it's going to get damaged.
Did this awful thing here today. The two tones on the ground are painted concrete (bluish) and pavers (purplish). Yeah they covered the whole yard, not a spot of grass to be seen. Of course the tree was spready with no good high point and all over that awning, the roof, a satellite dish, a garage, and colorbond fencing on two sides. Too high to drop anything, To low to swing anything without hitting stuff. Of course the tree was partly rotten and termite infested with some signs of compression bucking and cracking in some of the leaders meaning you don't want to go shock loading the thing :-(
This isn't a high dollar home and is in one of the poorer suburbs. Maybe its a cultural thing but certain ethnicities just hate grass and want to cover every inch with concrete, tiles and pavers, usually done themselves on weekends to a poor standard. It was a miserable day, and of course it rained. Got the thing done in the end but had an unpleasant time negative rigging a lot of it down. With no good high point being way out on a limb it's a ****** experience and shakes all hell out you no matter how smooth the guy in the rope is. Bring on the ply boards and crash pads!
Mitchell
ArboristSite Operative
stumbled into this thread, been awhile since I posted... Think it silly to suggest you can neg rig a stem faster then chunking, particularly if man hours are added in as it has to be at least twice as fast then to account for the guy running the ropes. Guessing their trolling you imagineero. realistically I say its three to four times as slow by some one who is good at it [and that's not adding in the extra man hours]. For guys who aren't good at it; its painful to watch. I've been thinking about tracking man hours on like jobs to nail this relationship down with the lads I work with. I offer people the choice: cost to throw/ flop with no precautions taken [if possible], some precautions like your suggesting with ply wood on grass or stacking brush, some rigging etc or no damage guarantee. usually the values at risk dictate what method most people will go for. If worst case is the unlikely wiping out a 500 item and it saves 1000 to chunk around said item most people will choose the faster cheaper option. Some choose to spend more and not risk anything but recognize that costs more as it take more time and cash to rig things. My pet peeve is bidding against guys who say no problem, always chunk around things and apologize after knowing they'll get away with it most times. I'm always up front with what I think the odds are: ill say something to effect of 99% accurate means one branch or chunk out of hundred is not going where we want it to.
It has been my general observation in when guys start fn with ropes man hours jump up for average job. I worked with some guys from a large multinational company and they were astounded to see all the rigging gear I had. I was surprised they hadn't seen any of it before let alone know how most of it worked. Reflecting on it later I figured they made a decision regionally {perhaps nationally] to avoid the man hour trap rigging can lead to and let the guys struggle through [on the low percentage of jobs that more advanced rigging techniques would increase productivity].
It has been my general observation in when guys start fn with ropes man hours jump up for average job. I worked with some guys from a large multinational company and they were astounded to see all the rigging gear I had. I was surprised they hadn't seen any of it before let alone know how most of it worked. Reflecting on it later I figured they made a decision regionally {perhaps nationally] to avoid the man hour trap rigging can lead to and let the guys struggle through [on the low percentage of jobs that more advanced rigging techniques would increase productivity].
imagineero
Addicted to ArboristSite
I only read the one line you posted, bottom line is if you're not going to read the thread then you have no business making a comment. Just saying.
Aldegar
www.gigharborbigfoot.com
Teach ground guys how to rig and treat them like professionals and use loopies, whoopies, slings, and steel carabiners to save time. I don't enjoy negative blocking but it is necessary at times and way more predictable than any sort of crash pad. Always gotten off lucky but had a lot of close calls with bouncing wood and at this point would rather be safe than sorry.
squad143
Tree Guy
I carry a tire in a tire, (Two tires. One larger with a smaller tire stuffed inside it) for snap cutting and throwing chunks onto. Works well and absorbs a lot of impact. Doesn't take up much room.
I rig a lot, but also bomb a lot. Depends on the job.
I rig a lot, but also bomb a lot. Depends on the job.
Treepedo
ArboristSite.com Sponsor
Lay down and fold tarp and build on a crib with limbs and logs and fill with mulch. clean up is a breeze and no extras.
I take great pride in spearing lawns with tops its much easier to fluff up a small divot than it is longish divot.
Potato fork and 4 tine gdn fork make quick work of lawn repair and decent spade to cut and lift the turf.
Rigging over chucking? six of one dozen of the other and depends on alot of things.
I take great pride in spearing lawns with tops its much easier to fluff up a small divot than it is longish divot.
Potato fork and 4 tine gdn fork make quick work of lawn repair and decent spade to cut and lift the turf.
Rigging over chucking? six of one dozen of the other and depends on alot of things.
IcePick
ArboristSite Operative
That statement can be true sprinkled in with a lot of ********. If you have the right ground guys standing around, cutting and chucking pieces can be a far quicker method to remove a tree. I find young guys, not that you're young blakes, over rigging, too many blocks, too many pulleys, too many ropes, etc.
Over time cutting and chucking will wear your body down. I've seen guys take to big of tops unnecssarily and three ground guys fighting to get it off a roof and out of a tangle F@ck of service connections.
