Boilers again

[nwmo_aggie]

I’ll try to catch all the bits to make this easier. Located in Northern MO. House with basement at 1800 sq ft, heated with a Drolet Myriad indoor stove. Takes about 4 cords to heat the house. We run the furnace fan to help circulate, but there are lots of days stove can’t keep up, so place stays about 68. Have central air and LP furnace also, but try to keep it shut off.

Looking to add about 900sqft to the house. Thinking it will have in floor heat, and will equip the addition with mini split heat pump to handle AC as I doubt current AC has that capacity, and getting duct work there would be a trick. This might change, unsure yet.

Looking at options for OWB. Within 60ish miles I’ve found dealers for Woodmaster and Central Boiler. Quotes so far look like i could have a WM 4400 or a CB 1450 E-Classic for about the same money, both in the mid $7k range. I have a buddy with a Hardy, but seems like they’re a lot lighter built, and not sure where a dealer would be.

Questions
Is there another brand available in IA or MO that I should consider over these 2?
Is there an advantage of one of these over the other in durability or operation I should consider?

With them being so close in price, strongly leaning to the 1450. Dealer gives me a bit more confidence in his install work and technical support over the other guy.

Any help appreciated

 

[briantutt]

I would consider heatmore too. Should be a dealer within delivery range I would think. MN based company. I have had 2 heatmore OWB. My father has had 2 central classic. I prefer the heatmore because of the forced air and the bottom crate cleanout screw system. Burns anything.

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[Marley5]

OWB will address your demands but it comes down to choice now.
Like mentioned, I prefer heat more then CB in that order.
In floor " hydronic " will surely cut down on wood consumption if you choose.

 

[Flatbed Firewood]

I just delivered some firewood to guy running a 20 year old Woodmaster 434. The fact that it is 20 years old and all he has done is replace a fan is pretty impressive to me.

 

[nwmo_aggie]

OWB will address your demands but it comes down to choice now.
Like mentioned, I prefer heat more then CB in that order.
In floor " hydronic " will surely cut down on wood consumption if you choose.

Is the thinner wall of the Heatmor firebox a concern as it relates to durability?

 

[cantoo]

The price of the units is only one thing to consider. Make both places give you an installed quote and then see what the difference is. Fittings, ducting, exchangers, good hose, pumps etc all can add up quick. I bought most of my stuff in bulk to save some money, still ended up over $6000. Check their prices for all the "little" parts you are gong to need. If one is even 10% higher than the other that will add up quickly.

 

[Marley5]

Is the thinner wall of the Heatmor firebox a concern as it relates to durability?

The heatmor's I'm familiar with are stainless steel which negates wall thickness plus lifetime warranty.

I personally have CB without a complaint to date but would prefer stainless myself.

 

[nwmo_aggie]

is there much to be gained in efficiency with the 1450 style stove over the 4400? Looked at the 4400 and firebox seemed huge. Also had a 3300 there, and to me, it seemed adequate, but dealer was pushing me to the 4400 pretty hard.

 

[briantutt]

The stainless steel is why I chose heatmore. 20 years out of the first one and if I would have paid better attention to the water level i am sure it would still be working. The new ones have a plc control and water level sensor to protect itself.

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[NSMaple1]

I think if I were in your shoes, I would just make sure the mini-split I was getting was a good cold climate one, sized adequately, and call that good. They can heat more than 900 sq.ft., economically. Your existing stove would have its heat load reduced. That should be all you need. If not, you could likely upsize your wood stove? An OWB is a big investment (don't forget the other things - like, good underground piping is $10+ per foot, and you don't want to use anything else). And it would increase your wood usage also. If you were going to heat multiple buildings, that would change things.

We had 2 12,000 btu Daikins installed in November. They can pump out the heat even at pretty cold temps outside. I still burn wood, but have let the heat pumps do their thing down to -15c outdoor temps to see how they do. They will still heat very well at temps lower than that, and I would use them all winter if my other heat source was anything else but the wood setup I have. Not sure what your climate is though - if Polar Vortexes are common, that might change things too.

If dead set on an OWB, a Heatmaster G series would be at the top of my look list.

 

[Whitbread]

I second the heatmaster G series suggestion. I'm going to be swapping my empyre out this summer for a G200. Granted, my needs are slightly different as I need an indoor rated boiler, but regardless their features and warranty are top notch. The vertical tubes with built in corkscrew cleaning rods is genius.

I'm heating about 7.5k combined square feet so a boiler is the only option for me.

 

[nwmo_aggie]

Made some of the rounds Friday. Woodmaster guy really only wanted to sell the 4400, and a bit crude of an outfit, so for sure won’t be having them install.

Called Heatmor, and nearest dealer is 4+ hrs away, and sort of rubbed me the wrong way, but eventually wanted me to get going as a dealer, but still. I’d say that ones out.

Found a Heatmaster SS dealer, and really hit it off with him. He sells either the G or C series from his store. Asked about the GS, but didn’t sound like one he pushes much. May go look them over closer. Is there much disadvantage to the GS series?

 

[Whitbread]

If you're just getting into a boiler, get a gassifier such as the G series. No, you can't burn green trash in it, but they run so much more efficiently and the cost when starting from scratch is negligible.

 

[NSMaple1]

Very important to have dry wood for a gasser. If you don't have next winters wood all split stacked and drying now, next winter could be a bit difficult.

 

[nwmo_aggie]

Very important to have dry wood for a gasser. If you don't have next winters wood all split stacked and drying now, next winter could be a bit difficult.

Generally stay ahead, but right now, only have 1 dump load cut for next year.

I don’t know, maybe I’m getting prices wrong, but the G series was about $1500 more than the GS, and $3k more than the C series Heatmaster. At that point, the C series seemed pretty interesting. If comparing the 4400 vs the GS or classic Edge CB, then no, not much price advantage to the old style.

 

[Whitbread]

Generally stay ahead, but right now, only have 1 dump load cut for next year.

I don’t know, maybe I’m getting prices wrong, but the G series was about $1500 more than the GS, and $3k more than the C series Heatmaster. At that point, the C series seemed pretty interesting. If comparing the 4400 vs the GS or classic Edge CB, then no, not much price advantage to the old style.

You have to figure your time, initial purchase price isn't everything. If you're already spending well north of 5k, what's another 2-3k? If done with any kind of home equity loan, line of credit, etc, you're talking maybe $40 a month difference in payment? If you burn ~30% more wood in a season, how much more time are spending every year dealing with wood? Do you have enough storage space for 30% more wood?

I'm not an old guy by any means, but I long ago learned that buying once and crying once is better than going cheap and crying for the next 10+ years.

 

[nwmo_aggie]

I guess that’s where I’m getting different info. Some places I see it will take 50% more, some 30% more and I had a dealer tell me 10-15% more. If it’s 50%, I see the math work out. If it’s 10%, then that’s a lot different...10% would just be a pickup load or 2, and if not too picky about what it is only amounts to $50-75 here for a load of mixed oak/hickory if I get behind cutting.

If my wood use ends up being 6 cord with a gasser, 10% more would cost less than $100/year, and if there’s less to maintain, clean and worry about with a non, then I’m having trouble seeing the benefit. I do concede that if it’s 50% more, and 6 cord goes to 9...well, then that math isn’t in my favor.

 

[panolo]

I have an edge 550 and the first year was a little rough but not terrible. Most of what I burnt this year was split in May and it has been good. Not much oak in it though. I burn much less than the guy down the road and my buddy with a heatmor smoke dragon. Plus my house is at a minimum 1500 sq ft larger. I'm more than likely going to upgrade to the 750 this summer as the new unit is stainless and I am going to be hooking a garage to it. I've looked at some other units and realize that CB is not the best out there but a couple things keep me going back. I love the ability to click my phone and see how it is burning. I also have a very good dealer 18 miles away. I've told my dealer he is free to have anybody call me or come over and I'll give them a low down on it. If I was buying a different brand I would actually want to see one in operation and talk to an owner.

 

[nwmo_aggie]

Related topic, I was also encouraged to find and use an air cooled circulating pump in my system over the more standard TACO pumps. Are there any suggestions on models to seek out there, or is that a bad decision?

 

[briantutt]

Taco is crap. Can't handle any temp, go grundfoes

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