Breaking into the biz...part-time?!?

[superjunior]

I agree 100% with the first 3 post on this page.
OP, your gonna get a lot of the "business" from the vets here as well as the vets out in the field. This job can and WILL kill you - dead... PERIOD!..If you let your guard down for a second.
Like some of the other posters here, I too have been climbing trees right out of high school, some 22 years ago. I've had lots of close calls and consider myself lucky to still be in one piece. This job aint no joke, far from it.. Why do you think our insurance companies love us so much?
I think you get it now, get a job with a tree service and absorb as much as you can.
Yes - we all started from the ground up. Good luck!

 

[chile verde]

quite the lesson in humility!

Alright! I think I've got it...

I totally goofed from the very first post, and it was all downhill from there. Let my mistakes be a testament to all future newbs...the correct way to initiate a query:

http://www.arboristsite.com/arborist-101/186237.htm

Short, simple, to the point, and no unnecessary personal details. Had I instead posted:

"Hi! I want to eventually learn to be a climbing arborist, but to support my family I have a 40 hr job. How open are most outfits to employing part-timer, weekend-only groundies?"

If I'd kept it to that, I seriously doubt I'd have caught so much flak. I realize now that it really doesn't matter whether your personality or background might increase a newb's employability. Have you got extensive high angle experience using similar safety protocols and gear, but in a different setting? Don't mention it like I did! To some folks that's merely ammo: "you must be an idiotic know-it-all, just enough knowledge to be dangerous, making some sophomoric attempt to assert your superiority over us saw-slingin, knuckle-draggin slobs!". In my case, nothing could be further from the truth.

Look, you come on to a forum gushing with wants of the trade on how to do it, Then in a toddler of a fit you lash out because we poke fun at you for using the "sawzall & electric chainsaw"............then to add more stupidity to your prattle (as if it is even possible) you state "I couldnt afford" to buy a "real" saw!!!!!

I don't know about you, but when someone takes a swipe at me...I punch back. I regret my first post, but will only apologize so far as providing you with reasons to help you discriminate against my climbing resume. Do you really not see anything in yourfirst post, which might be perceived as nonspecific criticism? If you'd instead lead with harsh yet informative comments (THEN call me an idiot) we'd be fine, but simply repeatedly calling someone an idiot based off your assumptions...that's not engaging in discussion or debate. That's only picking a fight. Sorry for responding in kind.

It took you a week to prove my suspicions (that you're capable of meaningful discussion), lxt, but when I try to see it from your perspective, you start to make some sense.

Arborist work is clearly a very unforgivingly dangerous business; one mistake can quickly lead to death or dismemberment, and even when all the cards are anticipated and played correctly, you can STILL die in some freak accident. ENCOURAGING most people to jump into this game would be downright irresponsible. Arborists MUST be hard-*****, if only to weed-out the incompetents who are a hazard to themselves and everyone with whom they work.

Despite your prejudices, lxt, I do understand this thinning process firsthand (is it not common to ALL careers, in some shape or form?). The only difference is that in my field, failures lead to termination of employment...not LIFE...which is why I don't lead with idiot, Idiot, IDIOT every time a technician seems to overstep his abilities. Given the nature of your daily work, I can certainly forgive your aggressive attitude towards newbs: how can anyone argue against a reaction rooted in self-preservation? Especially a reaction which I suspect (pure speculation here) might be periodic and habitual behavior?

The best thing you can do is to call around & get in with a good outfit, learn all you can, give it 2-3 years & then give it a try on your own..........if you even stick with it? you will learn real fast that this trade is unforgiving, the Vets will bust ya balls to see if you will stick it out........they dont wanna waste their time training a quitter & one day if you make it that far when you go through a few quitters then you`ll understand..............we weed out the unwanted in the field same as we do on here & you just got a small sample of reality!!!

Huh, that was a most uncharacteristically straightforward, almost paternal response. I appreciate (finally) getting the explanation I've been craving.

Good Luck!

Thanks!

Sorry if I came across as disrespectful of your work, and be assured that my own attitude stemmed from the need to defend myself against a relatively uninformed and seemingly disproportionate attack on my own (in)abilities. I doubt there's any need for further insults. Despite whatever you might think, I totally get that this is a really dangerous profession which absolutely demands a lengthy break-in apprenticeship period; where even experts...in a moment of complacency, or simply due to bad luck...can quickly find themselves dead. I've already nearly killed myself several times and have learned to be efficient, methodical, and flexible, yet cautious of rushing, eliminating steps or taking unnecessary risks. I like to think that a lot of my skills and equipment will also carry over, but only an Idiot would assume they'd jump into the saddle from the get-go!

No Tree too Big:
Good stuff, thanks! It is pretty ridiculous how much I've already managed to do successfully, using barely adequate equipment, and you're all totally right that I absolutely must acquire a REAL saw...something I've known for years. However, REAL saws require regular use and maintenance...and all along my $50 Remington (pulled out every 3-4 mo) is basically just a disposable fill-gap measure. My cash has been tied up building various sheds, coops, barns, etc and I'm just now able to seriously look at some Stihls. New ones. I'd love to score a deal at a pawnshop, possibly even clean/rebuild one eventually, but right now I lack the experience to make a good decision on used saws. Plenty more saw research to be done, which itself is pretty exciting.

Iustinian:
I LOVE that John Ball quote. You guys have way more responsibility (trees...property...LIVES!) than most folks, yet for whatever reason our culture (in the US at any rate) stigmatizes skilled labor, especially anyone remotely associated with "Landscaping". I can think of very few careers which see overlaps in so many areas of expertise: biology, physics, geology, law, rigging, climbing, teamwork, 2 cycle engine repair, saw maintenance, first aid...

In retrospect it's easy to see why lxt is so touchy, but idiot or not, if I really thought my plan were so simple and immediately rewarding...would I have started this thread in the first place?

 

[treeclimber101]

Alright! I think I've got it...

I totally goofed from the very first post, and it was all downhill from there. Let my mistakes be a testament to all future newbs...the correct way to initiate a query:

http://www.arboristsite.com/arborist-101/186237.htm

Short, simple, to the point, and no unnecessary personal details. Had I instead posted:

"Hi! I want to eventually learn to be a climbing arborist, but to support my family I have a 40 hr job. How open are most outfits to employing part-timer, weekend-only groundies?"

If I'd kept it to that, I seriously doubt I'd have caught so much flak. I realize now that it really doesn't matter whether your personality or background might increase a newb's employability. Have you got extensive high angle experience using similar safety protocols and gear, but in a different setting? Don't mention it like I did! To some folks that's merely ammo: "you must be an idiotic know-it-all, just enough knowledge to be dangerous, making some sophomoric attempt to assert your superiority over us saw-slingin, knuckle-draggin slobs!". In my case, nothing could be further from the truth.


I don't know about you, but when someone takes a swipe at me...I punch back. I regret my first post, but will only apologize so far as providing you with reasons to help you discriminate against my climbing resume. Do you really not see anything in yourfirst post, which might be perceived as nonspecific criticism? If you'd instead lead with harsh yet informative comments (THEN call me an idiot) we'd be fine, but simply repeatedly calling someone an idiot based off your assumptions...that's not engaging in discussion or debate. That's only picking a fight. Sorry for responding in kind.

It took you a week to prove my suspicions (that you're capable of meaningful discussion), lxt, but when I try to see it from your perspective, you start to make some sense.

Arborist work is clearly a very unforgivingly dangerous business; one mistake can quickly lead to death or dismemberment, and even when all the cards are anticipated and played correctly, you can STILL die in some freak accident. ENCOURAGING most people to jump into this game would be downright irresponsible. Arborists MUST be hard-*****, if only to weed-out the incompetents who are a hazard to themselves and everyone with whom they work.

Despite your prejudices, lxt, I do understand this thinning process firsthand (is it not common to ALL careers, in some shape or form?). The only difference is that in my field, failures lead to termination of employment...not LIFE...which is why I don't lead with idiot, Idiot, IDIOT every time a technician seems to overstep his abilities. Given the nature of your daily work, I can certainly forgive your aggressive attitude towards newbs: how can anyone argue against a reaction rooted in self-preservation? Especially a reaction which I suspect (pure speculation here) might be periodic and habitual behavior?

Huh, that was a most uncharacteristically straightforward, almost paternal response. I appreciate (finally) getting the explanation I've been craving.
Thanks!

Sorry if I came across as disrespectful of your work, and be assured that my own attitude stemmed from the need to defend myself against a relatively uninformed and seemingly disproportionate attack on my own (in)abilities. I doubt there's any need for further insults. Despite whatever you might think, I totally get that this is a really dangerous profession which absolutely demands a lengthy break-in apprenticeship period; where even experts...in a moment of complacency, or simply due to bad luck...can quickly find themselves dead. I've already nearly killed myself several times and have learned to be efficient, methodical, and flexible, yet cautious of rushing, eliminating steps or taking unnecessary risks. I like to think that a lot of my skills and equipment will also carry over, but only an Idiot would assume they'd jump into the saddle from the get-go!

No Tree too Big:
Good stuff, thanks! It is pretty ridiculous how much I've already managed to do successfully, using barely adequate equipment, and you're all totally right that I absolutely must acquire a REAL saw...something I've known for years. However, REAL saws require regular use and maintenance...and all along my $50 Remington (pulled out every 3-4 mo) is basically just a disposable fill-gap measure. My cash has been tied up building various sheds, coops, barns, etc and I'm just now able to seriously look at some Stihls. New ones. I'd love to score a deal at a pawnshop, possibly even clean/rebuild one eventually, but right now I lack the experience to make a good decision on used saws. Plenty more saw research to be done, which itself is pretty exciting.

Iustinian:
I LOVE that John Ball quote. You guys have way more responsibility (trees...property...LIVES!) than most folks, yet for whatever reason our culture (in the US at any rate) stigmatizes skilled labor, especially anyone remotely associated with "Landscaping". I can think of very few careers which see overlaps in so many areas of expertise: biology, physics, geology, law, rigging, climbing, teamwork, 2 cycle engine repair, saw maintenance, first aid...

In retrospect it's easy to see why lxt is so touchy, but idiot or not, if I really thought my plan were so simple and immediately rewarding...would I have started this thread in the first place?

In the future can ya shorten the post a bit ... Just saying .........no one wants to read a novel ....

 

[Iustinian]

you can always ask us about saws. and read the posts in the chainsaw forum hahaha.

My preferred brand is Stihl, but different strokes for different folks. I've operated and/or owned almost every professional series Stihl saw.

If you're going to be a climber there's two Stihl saws you'll be looking at for limbing and trimming: 192TC & and MS200T (theres 192T and also 020T, older models).
192's are about half the price of a 200T and about half the power. If you keep a 192 clean and sharp, its a great starter saw, and some climbers never upgrade, but once you've run the 200T, its hard to go back.

again, good luck and let us know how things go...

 

[chile verde]

you can always ask us about saws. and read the posts in the chainsaw forum hahaha.

Oh yes, already scouring old posts, not quite ready to start a new chainsaw thread ("Hey guys! I'm upgrading from a Ridgid X3 sawzall...!":msp_smile. My head still hurts a little from this one...

My preferred brand is Stihl, but different strokes for different folks. I've operated and/or owned almost every professional series Stihl saw.

If you're going to be a climber there's two Stihl saws you'll be looking at for limbing and trimming: 192TC & and MS200T (theres 192T and also 020T, older models).
192's are about half the price of a 200T and about half the power. If you keep a 192 clean and sharp, its a great starter saw, and some climbers never upgrade, but once you've run the 200T, its hard to go back.

again, good luck and let us know how things go...

I'm less than a mile from a great Stihl dealer. Even if I hadn't settled on on this brand (based on extensive research and talking to everyone imagineable), such convenient proximity to expert service would be tough to beat.

I think I'd be a bit premature pulling the trigger on a T series, since realistically I'm looking at 1+yr on the ground. I'm currently looking at their small, basic saws, capable of handling 2-3 cords of firewood/yr, felling >18" dia trees, as well as being suitable for most groundie cleanup duties (50~60 days/yr (?), based on my limited availability). I prefer easier maintenance over having "easy-start" mechanisms and other goodies, as I'd rather learn a basic saw inside-out than deal with having more things to screw up.

 

[Iustinian]

Oh yes, already scouring old posts, not quite ready to start a new chainsaw thread ("Hey guys! I'm upgrading from a Ridgid X3 sawzall...!":msp_smile. My head still hurts a little from this one...



I'm less than a mile from a great Stihl dealer. Even if I hadn't settled on on this brand (based on extensive research and talking to everyone imagineable), such convenient proximity to expert service would be tough to beat.

I think I'd be a bit premature pulling the trigger on a T series, since realistically I'm looking at 1+yr on the ground. I'm currently looking at their small, basic saws, capable of handling 2-3 cords of firewood/yr, felling >18" dia trees, as well as being suitable for most groundie cleanup duties (50~60 days/yr (?), based on my limited availability). I prefer easier maintenance over having "easy-start" mechanisms and other goodies, as I'd rather learn a basic saw inside-out than deal with having more things to screw up.

I disagree with you, because I'd rather see you show up, equipped with a climbing saw. You can use a 192TC for groundwork (very easily for limbs and stuff less than 16") and have a great climbing saw for when you start your climbing. 2 birds, 1 stone. $300 new. $150 used, I can help you find one if you want. You get a saw that is not 'tophandled' (t) and you're gonna be clumsy in a tree with it. srsly

If you insist on getting a cheap groundsaw first, then go with a MS170 ($200new) or 210. Now if you wanna get a GOOD groundsaw, get a ms260pro, or ms361, if they still have them, you'll continue to have a use for them as u grow. Again, if you have questions, ask away; I can help you find a nice used one, even if it needs a few parts, I can tell you the fair price and fix it up for you for considerably less than a new one if your'e willing to wait for the right saw in your price range -- i buy parts saws and fix them up to build affordable saws for friends all the time.

 

[lxt]

C V, I hear ya! the only way I can explain the harshness is: I see so many wannabes come on here wanting info & asking questions that they`re not even ready to have answered....cause they`re not at that level yet!

Even in the real world I have so many newbs/wannabes apply for work & every now & then I need the extra help....so Ill have a guy come out with us to check em out, byt the end of the day all the person really wanted to know was: why that saw, what type of rope is that, what do you charge for a tree like this?, do you need a chipper & so on....

the questions arent for inquisitive purposes for learning the job, they`re for the purpose of this guy going out & trying to do it on his own..........surprising how many people think they can learn enough in one day to start their own biz!!!! whats even funnier is 2 months down the road when one of these types calls ya cause they got in over their head & need help!

I think you understand why I was so harsh....? hopefully you will stick with it & let us know of your progress.............cause if you dont stick with it, can you imagine what I will be like to the next guy??? LOL

Good Luck!


LXT...............

 

[treemandan]

Oh we are " yer momming" each other? Its weak, give it up, you'll either kill yerself or somebody else will.

 

[chile verde]

Man, you guys are great!

Iustinian:
That's both a truly awesome revelation (treesaw = workable groundie-saw), and super generous offer. Here I was assuming the specialized treesaws would be relatively unwieldy for an afternoon of bucking...but then again ANYTHING's an improvement over my electric.

Speak o the devil, an 026:
Stihl 026 chainsaw

I'll need to see how my finances pan out post-Xmas apocalypse, then PM you when I'm ready to buy.

LXT:
I can totally see that. No hard feelings, eh?

Dan:
You're a little late; I've already wiped the lipstick off my face, but if you're really into sloppy seconds I understand...

 

[Iustinian]

Man, you guys are great!

Iustinian:
That's both a truly awesome revelation (treesaw = workable groundie-saw), and super generous offer. Here I was assuming the specialized treesaws would be relatively unwieldy for an afternoon of bucking...but then again ANYTHING's an improvement over my electric.

Speak o the devil, an 026:
Stihl 026 chainsaw

I'll need to see how my finances pan out post-Xmas apocalypse, then PM you when I'm ready to buy.

LXT:
I can totally see that. No hard feelings, eh?

Dan:
You're a little late; I've already wiped the lipstick off my face, but if you're really into sloppy seconds I understand...

for $25 more in that area, you could have the 290 farmboss. Stihl Farm Boss Chainsaw (18") - Model Its a little bigger than an 026, but more of a homeowner saw IMO. Its listed as like new, and comes with protective gear and an extra chain. That would be the better buy if you're spending the money this week. You'd still need a climbing saw though lol

$300 is ok money for a 026 if its in decent shape. Pro version only differs in that it has a decompress button on the top, which really isnt absolutely necessary on saw that size. ms 260 pro is the first saw that I bought; at the time, it was all I could afford, so I used it as a climb saw, but it was clumsy, because its not top-handled. I still have it though, and its a champ -- a great bucket saw. For the same price ($300) you can buy a new 192TC with a 14" bar, and you've got yourself a very nice climbing saw, and it would be great for prepping limbs to go into the chipper. For bucking logs, the crew you hook up with should have a bigger saw.

I did a couple sidejobs with my 260pro, and bought a 192TC new, and then a MS 361, a badass saw which will almost always get you down to the stump cut at least around here. 361's respond REALLY WELL to porting, and more than one of my friends has had 3' bars on their ported ones when nothing else was available on the jobsite.

 

[no tree to big]

i'm going to have to disagree on the 290 is a better deal then the 260 you can find a 290 for much less money then the one linked for $325 and if I had a 260 and a 290 sitting side by side both with an 18" bar I would grab the 260 everytime its much lighter and much more compact, yes less power, but I'll sacrifice the little bit. seems the 260 has more power per cc then the 290 in my opinion the 290 is weight for weight the equivalent of a 440.

the 260 that comes out with my crew is like 6 years old give or take thing is beat to hell but still runs great i seen it drop 40 feet and it didn't miss a beat went right back up for the next cut now my 290 if I dropped it 40ft I think it would explode into little bits...

 

[CNBTreeTrimming]

You'd also be amazed how handy a good hand saw is when you start climbing. Saves fuel for your bigger cuts and is extremely quick. I can make a cut and move on before I could have started my 200.

 

[treemandan]

You'd also be amazed how handy a good hand saw is when you start climbing. Saves fuel for your bigger cuts and is extremely quick. I can make a cut and move on before I could have started my 200.

More practice with that 200 should solve that problem. But seriously, it will.

 

[treemandan]

Man, you guys are great!

Iustinian:
That's both a truly awesome revelation (treesaw = workable groundie-saw), and super generous offer. Here I was assuming the specialized treesaws would be relatively unwieldy for an afternoon of bucking...but then again ANYTHING's an improvement over my electric.

Speak o the devil, an 026:
Stihl 026 chainsaw

I'll need to see how my finances pan out post-Xmas apocalypse, then PM you when I'm ready to buy.

LXT:
I can totally see that. No hard feelings, eh?

Dan:
You're a little late; I've already wiped the lipstick off my face, but if you're really into sloppy seconds I understand...

No, you allready said it, can't go back, it appears its your mode of operation which is a liablity to me. You'll do it again and who knows what else you'll cry about when its time to not to. In my mind I am allready trying to talk a crew member out of killing you. I have a chance of talking him out of it, I really don't believe you do. True colors. Thanks fer sharing. Maybe you do need a regiment of tree work, it jess might learn ya how to hold yer water. And don't think anything you said or will say is gonna get my goat though I just might let you git yer ass kicked for that boy.

 

[ropensaddle]

Man, you guys are great!

Iustinian:
That's both a truly awesome revelation (treesaw = workable groundie-saw), and super generous offer. Here I was assuming the specialized treesaws would be relatively unwieldy for an afternoon of bucking...but then again ANYTHING's an improvement over my electric.

Speak o the devil, an 026:
Stihl 026 chainsaw

I'll need to see how my finances pan out post-Xmas apocalypse, then PM you when I'm ready to buy.

LXT:
I can totally see that. No hard feelings, eh?

Dan:
You're a little late; I've already wiped the lipstick off my face, but if you're really into sloppy seconds I understand...

Ok now them guys been telling you wrong but don't worry since you have not already purchased a saw yet your saved. I am going to inform you of a secret real tree men know!































































XP
HUSKY KICKS


You will thank me someday:monkey:

Now if you get a job with a real pro, work hard , learn all you can, then incorporate your skill learned in mountaineering but keeping it separate too, you might make it. The real problem is from a monetary perspective. Everyone but the owner makes money and if he survives then all's well. All too many see a man collect 2k on a one day job and assume its a rich gig. What they never seem to see is it gets sent to equipment purchases,maintenance,insurance,licensing,advertizing,cpa,and many other ticks of profit!

 

[ozzy42]

Not enough reach:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:

 

[lxt]

Ropes...............typical Husky saw, they dont put the bars & chains on em cause there aint enough power to turn the chain...LOL

CV, ropes is bitter, bitter cause those orange saws just cant perform like a Stihl........OOoooooo thats a naughty word to him, I hear Murph & AA run husky saws??? well just goes to show what kinda company a sucky saw I mean Husky saw owner keeps!!

Real tree men.............LOL, you been watching too many Murph videos!

Ok Ropes.............Just kidding! LOL


LXT..........

 

[Iustinian]

a great benefit of running husky saws, is that your arms and shoulders will become huge because you will be pulling on the starter cord 50x's every time you want to start it. That's why you hear their saws running the entire time theyre climbing (they dont wanna shut them off for fear of it not starting again) hehehehehehe

you will also learn to become VERY patient as you deal with the fun of those outboard clutches.

Husky, Stihl -- they both make good saws IMO, I just prefer Stihl. Got too much money invested to switch brands now hahaha. For me, its easier to stick with Stihl bc I know the prices, parts, and mechanics of them better. I've run both. If I had Huskys, I'd REALLY have to learn how to fix them hehehehehe. My buddy has that 372XP pictured above, and it burst into flames in my hands hahahahaha. Honestly it was a good saw, easy to run. I HATED Huskys climb saw, for several reasons -- I won the top of the line one in a rigging competition, and its long been sold to make room for the 200T

 

[Livennine01]

Breaking into the biz

Wow! much entertainment on this thread. Must say that CV received more good advise than what I would have thought at first considering that sawzall and electric chainsaw. Seriously, that's the equivalent of someone asking how to break into the trucking business with their new MOPED and RADIO FLYER WAGON. LOL!!! Good advice on here hope it all works out for you. FYI - alot of times the biggest a$$hole has the most to show someone. They've just become so frustrated with greenhorns that you have to earn their respect. Other times they can also just bee the biggest a hole - find out which one is which and learn from that guy!!!!

 

[ropensaddle]

Ropes...............typical Husky saw, they dont put the bars & chains on em cause there aint enough power to turn the chain...LOL

CV, ropes is bitter, bitter cause those orange saws just cant perform like a Stihl........OOoooooo thats a naughty word to him, I hear Murph & AA run husky saws??? well just goes to show what kinda company a sucky saw I mean Husky saw owner keeps!!

Real tree men.............LOL, you been watching too many Murph videos!

Ok Ropes.............Just kidding! LOL


LXT..........

Hmmmmm I'm so,so,so glad my husky's never performed in the manner stihl has for me:monkey: Out of five stihl products all new two are running and thats a fact I can't get with. Nope the ropes say you can keep dem