Breaking it all down

[Slvrmple72]

I have found that by providing the customer with a clear breakdown of the expenses involved in the work they are requesting I do not get the haggling and sticker shock reaction. I also wind up being under estimate about 92% of the time and get plenty of referral work this way. How do some of you deal with the market and the flood of inexperienced underbidders?

 

[teamtree]

I focus on my core customers and treat them right. I do not worry about the underbidders because they come and go and a good customer will stick with you if you treat them right. I was once told if you chase after the people who want to lowest price you will never be able to offer the type of service you want.

The more info you give a customer the more it is open to interpertation. Give them a price and break it down.

I have found that on most small and straight forward jobs we will blow the competition (in my area) away as we are so efficient at getting in and getting out.

 

[Groundman One]

I always tell the customer flat out, "We're not the cheapest, but we are the best." That ellcits more than a few snickers but it's true, so I don't mind saying it. (You need to be at least a bit arrogant in this business.) I tell them they can get a less expensive and less experienced crew, but they will take two hours to do what we do in thirty-minutes, so where are the savings?

We have a good reputation and a long list of steady customers, some going back more than ten-years, so we get a lot of word of mouth jobs. Also, and this is important to us, our customers like us. We make them laugh, we're entertaining, we do good work, and we never leave an unsatisfied customer in our wake. We have to kiss a few rich butts along the way, but as long as I leave the job with a pocketful of their money and the promise of more to come, I'll pucker up when need be.

 

[teamtree]

I agree with telling customers that you are not the cheapest. If it is true go ahead and say it. In my area there are a few competitors who do it on the side and weekends. I point out the facts that make us some what expensive....

training
good equipment
safety
education
full-time, full service
we do not do anything but trees
dedicated

I explain to them I am looking for long-term relationships and when it is time for a tree service and come take the tree off your house....being a customer of our company puts you in front of everyone else calling after the big storm.

 

[Groundman One]

In my area there are a few competitors who do it on the side and weekends.

What p***** me off is when the local firemen do tree jobs "for fun". It doesn't happen often, not for the past few years actually, but we've priced jobs at three and four-hundred dollars only to find out a couple of off duty firemen came and did it for seventy-five bucks. Grrrrr!

I explain to them I am looking for long-term relationships and when it is time for a tree service and come take the tree off your house....being a customer of our company puts you in front of everyone else calling after the big storm.

Exactly!

 

[deevo]

What p***** me off is when the local firemen do tree jobs "for fun". It doesn't happen often, not for the past few years actually, but we've priced jobs at three and four-hundred dollars only to find out a couple of off duty firemen came and did it for seventy-five bucks. Grrrrr!

Not to start a p$ssing match here with you or anyone else, but there are quite a few Firefighters on here including myself who are in this business and we run our tree services as a business. I don't do it as fun, or maybe I do, but get paid well for doing it. I wouldn't start my saw for $75 to do a tree! Sure you might not be impressed with them, we have people around here like that as well like everyone else. Their around, we just unfortunately have to deal with them, but like you said if you have a good customer base and get steady work I wouldn't worry about it!
Cheers

 

[Sunrise Guy]

(snip)
The more info you give a customer the more it is open to interpertation. Give them a price and break it down.

(snip)

You meant, "The more info you give a customer the LESS it is open to interpretation." Right? If I'm missing something here, let me know. Thanks!

 

[deevo]

What p***** me off is when the local firemen do tree jobs "for fun". It doesn't happen often, not for the past few years actually, but we've priced jobs at three and four-hundred dollars only to find out a couple of off duty firemen came and did it for seventy-five bucks. Grrrrr!
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Not to start a p$ssing match here with you or anyone else, but there are quite a few Firefighters on here including myself who are in this business and we run our tree services as a business. I don't do it as fun, or maybe I do, but get paid well for doing it. I wouldn't start my saw for $75 to do a tree! Sure you might not be impressed with them, we have people around here like that as well like everyone else. Their around, we just unfortunately have to deal with them, but like you said if you have a good customer base and get steady work I wouldn't worry about it!
Cheers

 

[Groundman One]

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Not to start a p$ssing match here with you or anyone else, but there are quite a few Firefighters on here including myself who are in this business and we run our tree services as a business. I don't do it as fun, or maybe I do, but get paid well for doing it. I wouldn't start my saw for $75 to do a tree! Sure you might not be impressed with them, we have people around here like that as well like everyone else. Their around, we just unfortunately have to deal with them, but like you said if you have a good customer base and get steady work I wouldn't worry about it!
Cheers

Just to be clear, I am a great fan of firemen, especially the volunteer sort. Brave guys one and all. Whether firemen do it for free, for a few bucks, or for big bucks, anyone who will get out of bed at three in the morning to pull my kids out of a burning house is okay with me. :yourock:

I was strictly speaking of the guys who radically underprice jobs and do it just for fun, killing all competition; they're cutting into my paycheck when they do that. Hey, it's a free country, they can do what they want, but I'd appreciate it if they kept it to friends and family and didn't go trolling the neighbourhood.

 

[skyhightree1]

I give my customers a estimate and tell them im not the cheapest in town but you will get what you pay for out here. I then get in my truck and leave. Most of the time I bid only commercial jobs so its no need for explanation.

 

[deevo]

Fair enough

Just to be clear, I am a great fan of firemen, especially the volunteer sort. Brave guys one and all. Whether firemen do it for free, for a few bucks, or for big bucks, anyone who will get out of bed at three in the morning to pull my kids out of a burning house is okay with me. :yourock:

I was strictly speaking of the guys who radically underprice jobs and do it just for fun, killing all competition; they're cutting into my paycheck when they do that. Hey, it's a free country, they can do what they want, but I'd appreciate it if they kept it to friends and family and didn't go trolling the neighbourhood.

Yeah anyone cutting into your business, under pricing etc. is not good. I know what your saying. It especially sucks when someone like your neighbour uses someone else at a cheaper rate then yourself. Yep happened to me this year, no sweat I picked up 3 other jobs from my other neighbours, did a better job then the hack they hired and got more work because of it!:greenchainsaw:
Thanks Groundman One, also glad to see a fellow Canadian on the site and contributing!

 

[tree MDS]

Not to derail but: the two line clearance companies around here both have GPS now. I think its awesome, not so much with the buzzies lately, lol. More work for residential guys hopefully. I guess the gps even tells them if the boom is in the air or not, if the trucks dumping, all kinds of good stuff. I sort of feel bad for the guys but hey they break so much equipment that the thought of them actually lining thier pockets with the boss's equipment on top of all that destruction sort of bothers me. I love equipment.

 

[teamtree]

You meant, "The more info you give a customer the LESS it is open to interpretation." Right? If I'm missing something here, let me know. Thanks!

No I meant what I said....

If you tell a guy this is the cost breakdown

$75 for Fuel
$150 for Labor and Payroll Taxes
$30 for Workers Comp
$25 for Liability Insurance
$95 for Overhead
$10 for Training and Education
$5 for Misc. Expenses

Now you are open for him to criticize your cost breakdown. Why do I have to pay $75 for fuel...You were only here for 2 hours?...etc. etc.

If you tell them the price is $390 then you do not have to explain each item. Now the next guy comes in and breaks his cost down and does not know #### about a cost build up and he puts down $25 for fuel but you are lower than his overall estimate....now what...you going to knock off $50 to match his fuel cost?

At any rate, it is just my opinion as to giving one price and be done with it. I do not haggle once my price is set. If they ask for a lower price I tell them I give the best price I can and there is little margin in each estimate....I work for a living.

In certain circumstances, I do explain the cost if a customer questions my cost. I especially tell them about my training and the training for my employees as well as education. I explain my insurance program in full detail including workers compensation. I ask them if they want someone who is a professional and does this full-time or do they want the cheapest price. If so, I will submit my bid and wish them good luck. Many times we are cheaper than the part-time guys but we are also knock out of many jobs by guys bidding for beer money despite their actual cost.

 

[tree MDS]

Mistakes will happen-as long as the person learns and doesnt do the same thing again its allright. Just hope for the small stuff and try to learn how to avoid the next guy doing the same thing, = learning curve for the boss. No offence of course, I was thinking about my own situation moreso actually. Oh yeah, by small stuff I mean like clutches getting destroyed, brakes smoked, raking the side of the truck along your trailer... smoked chipper clutch, on and on, lol. Gotta love treework. Allmost forgot trucks rolling down the hill cuz the guys too stupid to put it in gear (my fault because of no e brake, yeah OK!) and he shaves his arms, lol.

 

[Mike PA]

Teamtree:

Have to disagree about the estimating. I am not doing tree work, but I do provide cost estimates routinely for my job and can't imagine it is much different. I may not break down to fuel costs per se, but I will detail where the money goes and exactly for what. Have never had anyone come back and say your cost for ____ is higher than his, so drop your cost to match. They look at the bottom line and the service that is provided for their money. People like to see how it adds up and where it goes.

Where I have found the big advantage is when something arises that is not in the scope of work. When the scope of work is spelled out well, there can be little arguing when you inform them that the price needs to change.

 

[Climbing Cutter]

I will usually just give the customer a price w/ no breakdown. well maybe a cut and leave price vs a full cleanup price. If they insist on a written breakdown of the estimate then i will breakdown their costs , not mine. For example so much $ for tree A and so much $ for tree B, but never get into my costs like gas , ins , etc...

 

[skyhightree1]

In my opinion its none of there business what everything goes too..... If a company says 500.00 then another company says 450.00 and there providing the same service then go with the cheaper company if you so choose. But I would tell them thats my price BOTTOM LINE and leave. If they want to haggle I tell them go buy a car.

 

[appalachianarbo]

Just to be clear, I am a great fan of firemen, especially the volunteer sort. Brave guys one and all. Whether firemen do it for free, for a few bucks, or for big bucks, anyone who will get out of bed at three in the morning to pull my kids out of a burning house is okay with me.

Whew! I'm glad you clarified your stance on firefighters who do tree work.... I work as a full time firefighter, but I also own a tree service on my off days. I am a CA and have insurance. I just think you're jealous of our kick-a$$ work schedule that gives us time for another career.


I usually break down a bid on a tree by tree basis. I detail the work to be done to each, but I give one price per tree. I don't bid seperately for climbing, pruning, cleanup, etc. And I certainly don't list insurance, gas, labor costs, etc...I also do everything in writing. No verbal contracts.

 

[tree MDS]

Unless they ask for it I dont break anything down, I just list what we discussed doing and the total at the bottom. That way they dont think about well..what if we just do this-all the sudden you have to break up a day for not full pay, then you have to worry about where to go for that two hours. It invites a PITA IMHO.

 

[Groundman One]

Whew! I'm glad you clarified your stance on firefighters who do tree work.... I work as a full time firefighter, but I also own a tree service on my off days. I am a CA and have insurance. I just think you're jealous of our kick-a$$ work schedule that gives us time for another career.

Not your schedule, just the uniform. Chicks dig firemen.

I usually break down a bid on a tree by tree basis. I detail the work to be done to each, but I give one price per tree. I don't bid seperately for climbing, pruning, cleanup, etc. And I certainly don't list insurance, gas, labor costs, etc...I also do everything in writing. No verbal contracts.

We always give at least three options; down and everthing left in a mess (where and how it falls it stays); down with everything nice and tidy (buck up the wood, pile the branches, pass the rake a bit, etc); down and everything taken away (spotless, nothing left but footprints).

We do very few written contracts. We are in a small community surrounded by other small communites, and everyone knows everyone. Screw one customer and it's game over. We've gotten screwed a few times, but not even one out a hundred jobs turns into a problem. Honestly, we're a very laid back company. We're almost always late, tend to sit in the truck and drink coffee and listen to music for a while once we get there, but when we work we work and we are exceptionally friendly with our customers. We'll fire someone in a heartbeat for being grumpy in front of a client.