Bugs and Trout

[2dogs]

No not a recipe or even a fishing lesson. Down here we have a "new" bug, a beetle actually called the Ohlone Tiger Beetle. FWS and Fish and Game and a half dozen other agencies were here last week for a CLOSED meeting regarding the beetle. They said to the very restricted attendees that it will be a much bigger disruption than the red leg frog and could shut down grazing and many other current uses on public and private land. The OTB only occurs here and the population while small is healthy. I don't think the fact that an animal population is small and restricted to one locale means it is endangered or threatened. We have beem working with OTB experts for several years and following their exact prescription. They have been very happy with what we have done to help the OTB. Now FWS says they are going to take over and find new experts. Of course they will be performing warrantless searches "by accident" as they have in the past.

The trout part is regarding the Bull Trout. Something like 28,000 miles of waterways are being impacted in Oregon. I don't know if they extend up into Washington. The amount of acreage affected is huge. The activists claim the Bull Trout is the new Spotted Owl and that they have the backing of the 9th Circuit Court.

Have you PNWers heard of the Bull Trout yet?

 

[redprospector]

"I don't think the fact that an animal population is small and restricted to one locale means it is endangered or threatened."

That's what we thought about the Checker Spot Butterfly.
I hope you're right, but we weren't.

Andy

 

[slowp]

Yes. Bull trout are more of an Eastside forest thing. That and Lynx will cause more headaches, and already have.

Good news, the Pika, which live at high elevations were not listed.

I often wonder if these people had put the same amount of energy into stopping drug use, or curing some kind of a disease, what would have happened.

 

[Meadow Beaver]

Yes. Bull trout are more of an Eastside forest thing. That and Lynx will cause more headaches, and already have.

Good news, the Pika, which live at high elevations were not listed.

I often wonder if these people had put the same amount of energy into stopping drug use, or curing some kind of a disease, what would have happened.

Maybe even do away with taxes

 

[Humptulips]

Yes. Bull trout are more of an Eastside forest thing. That and Lynx will cause more headaches, and already have.

Good news, the Pika, which live at high elevations were not listed.

I often wonder if these people had put the same amount of energy into stopping drug use, or curing some kind of a disease, what would have happened.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought Dolly Varden were sea run bull trout.

 

[Burvol]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought Dolly Varden were sea run bull trout.

They basically are. Bull Trout have to have a glacial feed stream. There is no exceptioins. Most creeks get too warm for the Bull Trout. Here in the Hood River valley we have the middle fork of the Hood that runs straight off the mountain into the Lawrence Lake Resvoir, then down into the creek below. I have seen one bull trout in that lake in 29 years I have been here. The creek is empty, but people claim they live there. You see Bull Trout signs all over OR/WA rivers I fish, and none of them have bull trout populous in them. Bunch of crap. They started putting up signs on almost any river they came to, even ones that are not Bull Trout water.

 

[056kid]

They are in the wallowa river..

 

[labrax]

Bull Trout info in link. Wife caught one in the Rock Creek near Missoula, MT about 8 years back - one of the nicest trout either of us has ever caught, and I have put LOTS more time into fishing. They can be found in Idaho, Montana, Washington and Oregon.

 

[Burvol]

Your link is correct, but vague. The Bull Trout is not swimming freely in the lower Columbia.

 

[labrax]

just providing some info

Just trying to provide some info on the trout. Probably could post more, but there is plenty out there on the web if anyone is interested in learning more. That is just an informational document by the USFWS - it is brief and not full of details to make sure people will read it. I've got a background in fisheries, so I know that the researchers that put together these plans just don't make stuff up.

 

[Burvol]

Just trying to provide some info on the trout. Probably could post more, but there is plenty out there on the web if anyone is interested in learning more. That is just an informational document by the USFWS - it is brief and not full of details to make sure people will read it. I've got a background in fisheries, so I know that the researchers that put together these plans just don't make stuff up.

No, but they speculate where the bull trout might be. The feds are different than the local fisheries people, the ones we fisherman know and interact with regularly.

 

[2dogs]

There is a small article in this month's Loggers' World on the Bull Trout. Doesn't make it sound good for the PNW.

 

[Greystoke]

There is a small article in this month's Loggers' World on the Bull Trout. Doesn't make it sound good for the PNW.

Just another stick to beat us with :deadhorse: I have seen signs all over here near popular fishin spots alerting fishermen about the bull trout. Won't really matter what they do here anyhow, the timber industry is already a joke!

 

[swift4me]

bull trout

When I was in school at Humboldt in northern California in Fisheries biology, there was a three or four year study to try and capture a bull trout/dolly varden in the lower and upper McCloud River, (a very pristine river before and after the dam. I had beer buddies and a roomate who were on it. They got to use gill nets, (very short time periods), electro-shocking, baitfishing by guys who knew how to do it day and night, panther martins... you name it short of dynamite or poison. Never caught a one.

I've caught them in Alaska and Montana. Not much on the end of a line, but they do eat alot of trout. Most people who fish the Flathead or the rivers around Ferney B.C. all have a bull trout story that starts with, "... I had this little cutthroat on and was bringing him in and all of a sudden..."

A char, like brookies and lake trout, but a nice fish nonetheless. I hope they don't turn it into a spotted owl, as they are doomed by only one thing. Thermal pollution, (lack of normal seasonal flow regime), and that deal is already long gone.

Pete

 

[AZLOGGER]

This is from an Arizona Game & Fish Department E-mail.

This is a very good example of the tactics used by the Enviro Whackos!



Department leadership wants to emphasize that this story is in no way an accurate reflection of the quality of our workforce but instead we observe it to be a part of a specific campaign to affect a desired outcome by the Center for Biological Diversity. As an example of this, one of the people quoted in the NPR story was Kieran Suckling, executive director of the Center for Biological Diversity. To give you some insights into Mr. Suckling’s and the CBD’s philosophies, all Department employees should be aware of this statement made by Mr. Suckling in a profile piece that appeared in a December issue of High Country News. In response to the question, “What role do lawsuits play in your strategy to list endangered species?” Suckling responded:

“They are one tool in a larger campaign, but we use lawsuits to help shift the balance of power from industry and government agencies, toward protecting endangered species. That plays out on many levels. At its simplest, by obtaining an injunction to shut down logging or prevent the filling of a dam, the power shifts to our hands. The Forest Service needs our agreement to get back to work, and we are in the position of being able to powerfully negotiate the terms of releasing the injunction.

New injunctions, new species listings and new bad press take a terrible toll on agency morale. When we stop the same timber sale three or four times running, the timber planners want to tear their hair out. They feel like their careers are being mocked and destroyed – and they are. So they become much more willing to play by our rules and at least get something done. Psychological warfare is a very underappreciated aspect of environmental campaigning.”