Business Advice

[stanlee]

Hey guys, I’m new to the forum here, and I would like to hear some advice. I am in the process of getting insured and licensed to do tree work. I have been a rock climber for many years and got into tree climbing about 7 years ago. I am hooked and would eventually like to make it a full time career. It will be part time to begin with and hopefully grow from there. What is the best way to develop good relations and gain the respect of the other tree services in the area, possibly even creating a working relationship? The guy I worked for is getting out of the business after 30 years and moving away, so I’m not infringing on him, otherwise I wouldn’t do it. Is it impossible? Some of them know who I am but I don’t think they would respect me as a business owner since I’ve always been the quiet guy who just tries to work hard, do what he’s told and let them call the shots. I have a lot of respect for most of the services around here, and not having a lot of equipment of my own yet, I'd like to be able to call someone if I need help on a bigger job.
Thanks

 

[EagleTreeCare]

Best bet would be to check out the Business Management section of this forum.

To answer your question though:

Be friendly with the competition if you want to make friends. Go talk to them at the dump, Mcdonalds etc..
Competition will always be there.. good and bad..

Just do good work and keep it safe. People will notice..

Also, dont touch a tree without insurance.. It only takes one f-up..

 

[stanlee]

Thanks for the advice. I can use all I can get right now. Good tip on the Business section. I hadn't found it till now.

 

[StrataTree]

I came from a rock climbing background as well. Sort of in a similar situation. I recently got insured and licensed for side jobs. However, I work full-time for a residential tree service 6-8 months out of the year. We do 95% of our work in a resort setting and my employer has been in the area for 30-40 years. He has made it pretty clear that he doesn't want me taking any work from his company. That means no work for anyone he has worked for in the past, no soliciting, and stay out of the resort. My dad has a small place in said resort though and I do all his tree work no problem and that has lead to other work from his circle of friends and neighbors, also no problem. If you are respectful and do good work, you likely will have no problem. My employer has built a relationship with a local contract climber, they scratch each others back and it seems to be beneficial for both. He calls us when he looks at jobs he just can't handle solo and we call him when we need another climber for certain jobs and sometimes for big sketchy jobs that are a tad beyond our ability. He works very fast and smooth! He makes everything look effortless. And as an added benefit, he has taught me much that I really don't know where else I would of learned it. That to me is priceless! Very glad to have him a part of our team. In just a couple years I've picked up some tricks that took him over a decade to figure out. Kinda put me on a fast track. Best of luck fitting in to your local tree worker scene. Should be enough work to go around in my opinion. No need for anybody to get too greedy! Perhaps I'm a bit spoiled in the Pacific North West though... I hear down south it's a bit more cutthroat!

 

[B Harrison]

Hey guys, I’m new to the forum here, and I would like to hear some advice. I am in the process of getting insured and licensed to do tree work. I have been a rock climber for many years and got into tree climbing about 7 years ago. I am hooked and would eventually like to make it a full time career. It will be part time to begin with and hopefully grow from there. What is the best way to develop good relations and gain the respect of the other tree services in the area, possibly even creating a working relationship? The guy I worked for is getting out of the business after 30 years and moving away, so I’m not infringing on him, otherwise I wouldn’t do it. Is it impossible? Some of them know who I am but I don’t think they would respect me as a business owner since I’ve always been the quiet guy who just tries to work hard, do what he’s told and let them call the shots. I have a lot of respect for most of the services around here, and not having a lot of equipment of my own yet, I'd like to be able to call someone if I need help on a bigger job.
Thanks

If you are all these things it seems to me as though you have a good relationship with other pros. Really quite, hard working do the job right. Your reputation as a worker will lead your business and your professional relationships will follow.

Good luck, call and ask for work, get cards made up, tell all your friends, talk to people about trees, which you now need to be an expert on, talk to people about chainsaws, which you now should aspire to be an expert on.

 

[ClimbMIT]

I started my business with minimal experience working for another company. The guys here so far have given good advice in my opinion. I especially agree with talking to friends, family, neighbors, etc.., Take your time pricing them and remember how they blow up once on the ground. I have screwed myself too many times by spitting out a price and having to finish the job making little to nothing! In this business you have to be a good salesman to do this. Know the chainsaws as stated above I still have a lot to learn myself. I am no expert but I know what I should be doing Good luck and don't get over confident.

 

[stanlee]

Thanks again for all the tips. One thing I always appreciated about my old boss is that after 30 years in the business, he was still always willing to listen to suggestions from his employees and take them into account. I know there'll always be a lot more to learn in this business, and I'm thankful for the stepping block that rock climbing gave me to all the ropework, rigging and knots.

Do you all think that cards and maybe a website are the best ways to get the word around? I've heard that yellow pages and the paper are a big ripoff.

 

[old_soul]

my advice is to focus on impressing your customers with quality work and not worry about impressing other tree services in town.

if you are going to be your own boss you need to let your work speak for itself. A long list of happy customers and a fleet of well maintained equipment will earn you that "respect" you wish more than any amount of jawing will do

If you have a larger company (that you trust) you can sub larger jobs to, that is one thing, but it is very difficult to have another crew, company come in and "help" finish jobs


Good luck

 

[ClimbMIT]

Old Soul Thumb up! Flyers are good if the neighborhood allows it. We had a tornado come through our neighborhood a little over two years ago and I put out flyers right after it happened. This helped getting my foot in the door at a very minimal costs. Before getting paid always ask the customer how do you like it or how does it look? Another thing I heard in a seminar from a very successful tree service owner was to send thank you cards a week or so after you finish the job. On the card say" thank you for business and we are glad we had the opportunity to work for you. Please let us know in the future if there is anything else we can do for you. I am putting a couple of business cards( or magnets) just in case you happen to know someone in need of tree work. Thanks Again!" (business name) then your signature

 

[stanlee]

I really like the idea of a follow up 'thank you' ! Don't know of anyone who does that around here. And Old Soul, you're right about impressing the customer first no doubt.

 

[ClimbMIT]

Your welcome. Thanks for the positive feedback on my idea!

 

[Single_Shooter]

I am also just starting out o here is what I have found to work in my area.

The first thing I did was buy quality saws (Stihl 200t, 362, 250, 131 pole saw and just got a new 660 yesterday) no issues getting them running means more time working and less time fumbling around.

The second thing I did was get good glossy highly visible business cards ($55/1,000) and some door hangers ($225/1,000) that have a blank spot for me to write in a price for a tree or a stump with a removable business card at the bottom. I even went so far as to go to the local office supply and get magnets that have a peel paper on them and stuck them to the back of the door hanger business card part ($25/100) as well as on some business cards. Women tell me they have me on their stove or refrigerator. One woman told me she sees me every morning when she gets out of the shower....apparently she has my magnetic card on her bathroom cabinet.

The third thing I did was buy a used stump grinder and trailer. With the stump grinder I am pulling down a minimum of $400-$700 a weekend only working those 2 days just knocking on doors getting my name out there. The rest of the week if I am not doing a job I put door hangers out (with a quote written on it for a stump or tree on their property) and that leads mainly to stumps...which leads to me mentioning their trees...and more work. I went to do 2 small (tiny brush stumps) stumps for a guy and by the time I left the neighborhood I had ground 8 stumps....not a bad way to turn one small $50 job into a $400 afternoon.

I have done 2 tree jobs just this week that were referrals from happy stump grind customers. As stated above by others - under state your job and expectations and over-perform in every way. Tell them it will take 8 hours and that it will be messy....finish in 6 hours and leave their yard looking like you were never there. Exceed their expectations and they will be happier with what you do. It sells them on referring you and it makes you look better in their eyes.

The best thing I have found is to be EXPEDIENT. I get a LOT of my jobs because the big companies around here are scheduling 4-6 weeks out to grind stumps. And they only MIGHT be able to get to it then....they will call and let you know...not a good way to win customers. I show up with my grinder and offer to do it right then...I usually get to the job within 48 hours of the customer telling me to do it. I have also found that the big guys will take 2-5 weeks to finish the job - we are done in a day or two in most cases. Apparently they do the work in stages??? Limbing one day....pick up the limbs and run them through a chipper the following week...drop the trunk a week or so later...cut up the trunk the following week....remove the trunk pieces on another day (leaving behind dead spots in the grass by this time) and finally a couple weeks later someone shows up to grind the stump.

Also....I get a LOT of referrals from lawn maintenance guys. I hand out business cards at the local gas stations in the early morning hours when they are all there gassing up their machinery and filling their gas cans. Those guys LOVE to see stumps go away and will practically beg their customers to call you. I try to kick back $10-$20 to them for the referral if the price is good enough to warrant it. I have done 6 stumps this week referred to me by lawn care guys and I have 4 more to do yet. I also hand out their business cards if a customer mentions needing a lawn guy.

I also will do a single limb or two in a nice neighborhood for the cost of the climber just to get me in the door with that customer and their neighbors....so when their neighbors see us out there they ask about trimming their tree....or removing a tree...or removing a stump. I spend my time selling other jobs and handing out business cards to the neighbors and have my ground guy load the trailer. 3 weeks ago we did a limb and some small trimming for $100 (that's what the climber charged me)....by the time we left that street we dropped a small conifer, a small cedar, a small pruce and trimmed 3 other trees and walked away with $1,200 total. And due to the local storms we didn't have to haul anything...just cut it up and drag it to the curb for the city to pick up for free.

 

[ClimbMIT]

Single Shooter where do you get your cards and door hangars from? Those prices sound good!

 

[husqvarna335xpt]

Mit I had mine done double sided gloss with uv 16 pt card I was skeptical but I tell you what best card ive ever seen 1000 for 20$ on ebay awesome awesome

 

[ClimbMIT]

Mit I had mine done double sided gloss with uv 16 pt card I was skeptical but I tell you what best card ive ever seen 1000 for 20$ on ebay awesome awesome

That is awesome price! I have been paying way too much at Zazzle. I want those door hangars like Single Shooter has.

 

[stanlee]

Mit I had mine done double sided gloss with uv 16 pt card I was skeptical but I tell you what best card ive ever seen 1000 for 20$ on ebay awesome awesome

I didn't know you could order cards on ebay, but I'm definitely check that out!

Shooter, it's inspiring to hear that you're doing so well. I've been thinking about getting a used stump grinder myself.

 

[joezilla11]

I tried zazzle and the cards are undersized and the print was blurry. I use OfficeMax now but ill have to check out ebay now that u said that.
I also get more business from referrals than anything else so ill take that as a good sign. Craigslist is free but seems like a waste of time it's just flooded with guys who advertise half price work. I also just put an ad in the church bulletin it was fairly cheap and we'll see what kind of response it brings it'll be out in a week.

Anyone use Facebook for advertising? I see other people use it for their businesses and seems like it would reach alot of people fast and doesn't cost anything.

There's a local ground guy who is trying to start his own tree service. Asked me to bid a job for him, told me he has no insurance and asked me to teach him to climb as well. I then see him advertising his tree service on Craigslist saying he's fully insured and has 20yrs experience, which is obviously a lie. He's got a logo he copied from another website because it has the copyright printed over the picture. Anyways he mentions in his ad to "like" his company on Facebook, which brings me to my question lol if anyone uses Facebook?

 

[StrataTree]

What? Facewhat? :Eye:

NO!

Probably should though, to reach the most potential custy's

 

[rarefish383]

I came from a forth generation tree care family so getting started up was not an issue for me. Some things I might look at a little differently than others that have started up them selves. As others have said, your work will get you business, don't screw up. I don't know how many times I've heard guys say "I was 99% sure that would have worked, Oh well, accidents happen". The truth be told, most accidents are caused, and they are caused by guys who think they are 99% right, and they are 85% wrong. The only claim we ever had for property damage was caused by me. We had a hornets nest in a Juniper hedge that the homeowners were supposed to have taken care of. They didn't, so I grabbed a pole saw and wrapped a rag around it, a little gas, and no more hornets. The lady didn't tell me they had just stained the Red Wood siding. Poof. My dad always stressed what he called a factor of 3. Almost all accidents have at least 3 points of human failure to take place. This one did, the obvious 1) Me using fire on the end of a pole saw. 2) Not checking what the empty cans behind the bushes were. 3) Not checking to make sure the hose was working. I saw the hose and pointed it out to my groundie, but when he grabbed it, it didn't work. He ran around back and it was 50 ft from the fawcett and not hooked up. If you take any one of the 3 failures out, the accident wouldn't have played out. We had the fire out in a few minutes, but not quick enough to prevent damage. If you screw up like that and don't have insurance (I know you said you're getting it) the other guys in the area will make sure every one knows about it. I like the idea of door hangers, if you are working within a couple houses. I don't like them when you drive around on a rainy day and put one on every door. Cries newbie with no work. Same with posters on phone poles. If someone asked me if I knew the guy on the poster? I'd just say some high school kid with a chainsaw and pickup. Now the door hangers, I like. You can always jot down a short note on it, "I was working two doors down and noticed you had a dead tree in your side yard. While we are in the area we could give you a free estimate and a discounted price." When I say discounted price, I don't mean half price. I mean maybe $10 or $20 in gas money you didn't spend driving out for the estimate. We were well enough established that we charged for estimates for new customers, deducted from bill if we did the job. Weeded out the people who called every number in the book looking for the cheapest price. That's a big one too. The cheapest price. You have to be able to look at a job and know how long it will take to do, and then know how much you have to get to pay the days receipts and make some for you. I wouldn't take a job unless I could make at least $65 per man hours, and I've been retired a long time. Some jobs you will make a lot more, but you have to know the limit that you can't go below. This work is hard enough with out doing it for free. I've rambled enough, good luck, Joe.

 

[Single_Shooter]

rarefish has it right - we give maybe a $50 discount on a tree and maybe $20 on a stump because we are already there - no driving involved.

The door hangers come from a local guy who designs the cards himself then orders them from a printer here local.

I told him I wanted it to be identical to my business card but with a space where I could write down a basic price for a potential customer - he came up with the idea for the ones that had my detachable business card on the bottom.

The way we have it worked out I run the crew and the job while my partner hits the few blocks around where we are working. We have people come up to the job and ask us to come look at tree work all the time - BIG BOLD easily readable lettering on the side and back windows of his Suburban really gets us a LOT of calls. Vinyl lettering on your vehicle is one of the cheapest and most effective forms of advertising there is....as they drive by and see you working they call. We have had people call from behind us on the road and we follow them home and give them a bid.

The best thing I can say is look professional and sound professional. Have clean well running equipment, have your entire crew wearing the same shirts with your company logo and a LARGE phone number on them, and just do what you say you will and exceed the customer's expectations and you will do fine.

This weekend, just knocking on doors I did $1,200 in stumps and got 3 tree jobs starting tomorrow that will gross the two of us $2,250 in two days. Not bad for a couple poor country boys new to the biz. We are averaging about $200 an hour for our work when combining stumps and trees. we pay our groundies $75 to $125 a day depending on the work load and the hours involved. I think that if we pay by the job they have a choice....they can drag their feet and make $100 in 8-10 hours....or they can bust their butts and make $100 in 4-5 hours. How much they make and how long they are there is up to them. If we get a second job we sweeten the pot for them to keep them running. We provide shirts, gatorade, lunch and if we work late supper too.

Today we did a quick job with 2 guys - paid them $50 each for a 2 hour job the customer wanted finished before his wife got home to surprise her. Gave them $50 each and bought them lunch on the way home because they had to wait for us to grind some stumps before we took them home. $25 an hour and a free lunch for dragging a little brush to the trailer ain't a bad deal.

I have also found that I get a LOT of referrals so far from one guy whose stump I did for $80 (he was quoted $200 by one of the big guys)and I did it the following day (they told him her would have to wait at least a month)and I was done in under 30 minutes. He was so pleased and so impressed I have gotten 3 tree jobs and 2 stump jobs from that one guy and his friends at his church. All that from striking up a conversation with a complete stranger in a restaurant one night...it pays to be outgoing and friendly!!!