Cabling trees: splicing eyes into "strand"

[pdqdl]

Does anyone splice their "strand" cable for the eyes on steel cabling ? Cabling is not a big part of my business, as I usually don't recommend it. But now I find myself needing to do a large maple, and I am checking out the options.

I have read that it is as easy to do as putting on regular cable clamps, but I have not ever tried it. I am referring to using 7-wire "strand", rather than wire rope, which is much more complicated a procedure.

Also: "through" eye-bolts or "lag" eye-bolts? Obviously the through-bolts are stronger, but they also do more damage.

 

[kennertree]

Check out the rigguys from Sherrill. You need ehs cable for this application, the cable comes in 200ft. lengths and is very reasonable as far as price goes. Another good tool is the BMP book on cabling listed in the Sherrill catalog too.

 

[appalachianarbo]

I just bought some wirestops from rigguy. I can't wait to try them out next week.

If you are going to go the traditional route, instead of splicing your eyes in, use preforms. Much easier. J-lags are pretty common for cabling too. Whatever you use, make sure you buy thimbles that fit the cable.

The BMP book can walk you through it all.

Also - Why don't you usually recommend cabling?

 

[randyg]

Wire stops by rig guy way to go for sure. Used to drill 9/16 hole for half inch rod and 3/8 cable rated around 4,000lbs? Now drill 7/16 hole and shove cable through, stick end on 3/8 ehs cable rated around 14,000lbs. Its a no brainer. 3/16 or 1/4 inch for fruit trees etc. Ends are rated same as cable.

TIP: Bend about 1/2 inch of center strand a bit so the cone won't slide off under no-load conditions

TIP: Start hole with a spade bit same diameter as outside diameter of "stop nut" just enough to make a level spot for nut to seat against, then change to bit 1/16 inch greater than cable size. Of course you AIM for the 'other end' with both bits.

 

[pdqdl]

...

Also - Why don't you usually recommend cabling?

Not very much of my customer base is interested in quality tree maintenance. We mostly get removal, raise for roof clearance, or deadwood. If I come across a tree that is seriously weakened, I usually recommend removal. By the time I see a seriously weakened tree, is usually too weak to save

If we just get a tree with a weak crotch, we usually try to prune the tree so that the crotch has less loading on it. Cabling does not seem to be very popular in Kansas City.

 

[md_tree_dood]

Lags are terrible and way harder to install then through bolts. Hand splicing is pretty straightforward but it'd be easier to just buy some quickwraps. That being said, go around the thimble (which you pounded onto the bolt, do not twist open then twist close), unwrap about 6 inches of the EHS and then wrap the most outer piece 5-7 times, cut off excess, then goto the next one, repeat until finished. Watch your hands though, easy to get cut on exposed wire.

My .02 cents, you're a fool for not offering cabling. 99% of the time you're already IN the tree, why not charge an extra 100 bucks or more for a cable?

 

[pdqdl]

I broke down and bought some wirenuts

After evaluating the options, I think the best way for me it to go ahead and sink some money into some cabling parts inventory. I was trying to avoid that with splicing, but I would still have to buy all the clamping hardware and lag bolts. That, and there is not much strength in the common strand, and the EHS doesn't splice anyway (or so I have been told).

The wire nuts make more sense, cost AND labor wise.

Thanks for all the advice guys! This is definately one area that I don't get into very much.

md_tree_dood: I wouldn't sell it cabling because it was profitable. I would only sell cabling if I thought it was best for the customer. But you're right, I have probably missed opportunities because of my own reluctance to sell the service and keep an inventory of the necessary parts to do the job.

randyg: great suggestion. I'm sure that speeds up enclosure by the tree.

 

[mckeetree]

Lags are terrible and way harder to install then through bolts. Hand splicing is pretty straightforward but it'd be easier to just buy some quickwraps. That being said, go around the thimble (which you pounded onto the bolt, do not twist open then twist close), unwrap about 6 inches of the EHS and then wrap the most outer piece 5-7 times, cut off excess, then goto the next one, repeat until finished. Watch your hands though, easy to get cut on exposed wire.

My .02 cents, you're a fool for not offering cabling. 99% of the time you're already IN the tree, why not charge an extra 100 bucks or more for a cable?

100 bucks? You should see what we charge.

 

[md_tree_dood]

I threw that out as a number for something simple like a 5 foot cable between two leads of a maple or something. You're right that the cost I quoted is almost laughable. That being said:

You can splice EHS. Lag bolts suck. Any system that forces you to use a come along in a tree is not going to be profitable, so stay away from 90% of the systems available which are usually "cheaper" but you'll lose time on the job.

As far as suggesting it to people, it's not going to do anything but help the tree, so while one could make the argument that a tree doesn't NEED it, that doesn't mean a customer may not want it and not know it because you didn't suggest it?

My crew goes through about 200 feet of cable every two to three weeks, I've tried other systems when I worked at different companies and through bolts, thimbles, quickwraps and cable is the easiest system available in my opinion, mainly because you don't need tons of tools to put in in.

 

[pdqdl]

100 bucks? You should see what we charge.

Good question! I'd like to know!

That might deserve a new thread. I think I'll start one.

 

[pdqdl]

... My crew goes through about 200 feet of cable every two to three weeks, I've tried other systems when I worked at different companies and through bolts, thimbles, quickwraps and cable is the easiest system available in my opinion, mainly because you don't need tons of tools to put in in.

Are you not pre-tensioning your cables at all, or are you using a turnbuckle?

Anything other method than those two seems to need a come-along to pull the slack out. If confronted by a split down the trunk, then the come-along is certainly needed.

Comments?

 

[md_tree_dood]

There are a number of ways to do it, I'll go through a couple.

If you're installing less than 25 feet, you can often double crotch into both leads and sit into your line which will pull the two leads together that you're cabling which acts somewhat like a come along as long as you weigh enough ( I'm at about 210, so it usually works for me)

The other way has to do with the fact that we're using through bolts and not lags. You used the actual bolt to draw the cable tight. Remember that you're not supposed to be able to play music on the cable, you're just trying to remove sag from the span. Setting the cable with 2 to 3 inches of slack in the bolt and then drawing it up using the nut will tension the cable.

 

[treeseer]

TIP: Bend about 1/2 inch of center strand a bit so the cone won't slide off under no-load conditions

This is an important part of the directions

TIP: Start hole with a spade bit same diameter as outside diameter of "stop nut" just enough to make a level spot for nut to seat against

This sounds like countersinking, not sure this extra wounding is justified.

Using a comealong to pretension does take time but with practice not much.

 

[pdqdl]

TIP: Bend about 1/2 inch of center strand a bit so the cone won't slide off under no-load conditions

This is an important part of the directions

TIP: Start hole with a spade bit same diameter as outside diameter of "stop nut" just enough to make a level spot for nut to seat against

This sounds like countersinking, not sure this extra wounding is justified.

Yeah, I got to thinking the same thing,...maybe. It's probably not much of a concern, however, since you just bored a hole through the trunk from one side to the other. I can't imagine that increasing the diameter a little bit on one side would be any worse than the extra time it takes for the tree to grow over the top of a wire nut that is not countersunk.

Maybe someone with more experience in this area will post an opinion ?

...Using a comealong to pretension does take time but with practice not much.

I'm not afraid of the comealong issue. I have a lineman's cable grab that works very much like an ascender. Just tie off to the last branch to be cabled and pull the cable tight with a light chain hoist, block and tackle, or whatever is strong enough to put the necessary tension on the cable.

 

[randyg]

TIP: Start hole with a spade bit same diameter as outside diameter of "stop nut" just enough to make a level spot for nut to seat against

This sounds like countersinking, not sure this extra wounding is justified.

QUOTE]

When the cable is at or near 90 degrees to the limb, I don't use the spade bit. However as that angle increases (or decreases), the stop nut will bend according to that angle. Hence, the spade bit ONLY takes away enough to make a level area for the nut to seat, no more. That way under tension, the nut will be right in-line with the cable.

 

[randyg]

Yeah, I got to thinking the same thing,...maybe. It's probably not much of a concern, however, since you just bored a hole through the trunk from one side to the other. I can't imagine that increasing the diameter a little bit on one side would be any worse than the extra time it takes for the tree to grow over the top of a wire nut that is not countersunk.
.

NEVER try to use the spade bit AFTER you have bored the hole through, as it will just dance around, make a mess and probably bend the bit. Don't think of it as countersinking the entire nut, just the high side. I wish I knew how to send a picture. . .

 

[D Mc]

When the cable is at or near 90 degrees to the limb, I don't use the spade bit. However as that angle increases (or decreases), the stop nut will bend according to that angle. Hence, the spade bit ONLY takes away enough to make a level area for the nut to seat, no more. That way under tension, the nut will be right in-line with the cable.

This is very good advice. It is a method I have used with through bolts. With hardened hardware you don't want sideload shear. You want straight 90 degree pull.

Dave