Cabling... your opinion?

[treeseer]

Chipper, you may want to study that picture again. The crown form looks pretty open already; only a very light thinning of crowded/heavy-ended branches seems to be called for.

Mike, the pics show attachments that on a sugar or a red maple may not be a big problem, but on a silver maple the extra insurance provided by a dynamic cable may be worth the investment. Owner's call; could go either way imo.

 

[Ekka]

Hey NeTree

Why would thinning lead to the first part of a slow death? Is this just for this species or your theory on all thinning?

 

[chipper]

treeseer- i checked it out again and you are right. i guess that i didn't tke a good enough look at it the first time. personally, i hate silver maples. they are weak, messy and ugly trees. when a chance is given, i am obliged to take em' down.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Clearance= chipper=Trignog= NEtree

 

[NeTree]

Clearance= chipper=Trignog= NEtree

Watcha gettin' at Mike?

 

[clearance]

Thats right, chipper, Trignog and NEtree are evil tree killers just like Clearance, guys there is still a chance for you to repent. Bow down to the almighty trees, shun those who would defile them. Never cut a tree down if there is a chance that you can be repeatedly paid to work on it. Kind of like when a pet gets runover and the vet says "we can save kitty" Yeah, for 3-4 grand and he'll only have two legs. Get out the .22. Lots of new kittens at the pound.

 

[NeTree]

Plenty of them here, too... take one get two free!

 

[chipper]

Good lord! I need to find a new profession!

 

[NeTree]

That's okay, consider the source.

 

[Ekka]

Come on NeTree

You haven't answered my question about why thinning would lead to a slow death?

 

[NeTree]

Not just thinning, but the

...best plan of attack would be to thin severely...

that I was referring to.

Thought it spoke for itself without the need for further clarification.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

It seems to be coming common practice here to make a statement and assume that it's the "only truth". When asked to back up or elaborate on a statement the questioner is either:

*attacked
*dismissed
*ignored

The original "truth sayer" hardly ever feels any commitment to the topic of the thread.

Have you noticed that the owner fo the tree hasn't come back for more information? Any idea why?

Again Chipper...what would thinning accomplish. I agree with NET, it would start a slow decline. Also, thinning would lead to more load on the lower branch unions. What is your goal?

 

[treeseer]

Not just thinning, but the...that I was referring to.

Thought it spoke for itself without the need for further clarification.

Erik, leaving out info like the "severely" made it impossible to figure out who or what you were responding to. Brief and to the point is good, but many of your posts are not clear because they leave out too much.

You can see that chipper, upon further review of the pictures, withdrew his suggestion.

TD, I think the original poster is still around. If the thread got derailed by bickering, flick back to your role in that; you said "If you want to crab about something, take it off-line." after you made two crabbing, critical posts

Ease up, willya?

"when a chance is given, i am obliged to take em' down.' Homeowners hear from utility treeguys who have chipper's basic belief. When utility guys do residential work on the side, that belief remains, so Mike's right, let them offer those opinions, we'll offer arboriculture, and let the client choose.

Fuss + Fight = Foolishness

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

You haven't answered my question about why thinning would lead to a slow death?

This tree has already been raised, now you want to thin it, which will leave lions tailed branches, that Guy will tell us need reduction.

Raise it up, thin it out, top it, and that brings us to, cut it down.

This is not tree care.

Thinning does not make a tree stronger, in fact, study after study have shown just the opposite. The idea of thinning may have come from forestry practices, where crowded commercial tree farms are thinned to increase lumber production. It is also used to reduce certain fungal pathogens on certain pines. This was then extrapolated to thinning individual pine trees, to lessen needle fungus, then finally to deciduous trees.
Like with raising a trees crown, thinning give the tree an open look, that to the untrained eye may be appealing, and they are both low skill tasks. Low branches are easy to cut off and so are those in the middle along the trunk and main branches.
I agree with NE that crown thinning, like topping, crown raising, reduction, lions tailing, and other forms of over trimming, can be the beginning of the end. And as I pointed out at the beginning of this post, when one improper tree care practice is applied, it is often combined with others, for the extreme detriment of the tree.
I rank unnecessary branch removal right up there with spiking a trim, perhaps even worse.

 

[treeseer]

now you want to thin it, which will leave lions tailed branches,

Mike, thinning tips does not lion-tail, removing interior branches does. Not all thinning or reduction cuts are bad; many are good and necessary. YOu are overgeneralizing, as you are when you lump all the folks recommending removal together. there is diversity among urban loggers, as there is among arborists.

I rank unnecessary branch removal right up there with spiking a trim, perhaps even worse.

I rank it way above, because overpruning is far more common and its effects are far more immediate, lasting and severe. Spiking prunes is done by a few treecutters who do not know the ropes, but overthinning and overraising is done to many/most? trees.

I'd rank unfounded removals based on bad advice from misguided tree advocates up there too. They say that because reduction cuts and thinning cuts are the devil, we must remove trees that could be made safe by simple pruning.

In Europe crown reduction of high-risk trees is commonly done, leaving well-formed, healthy specimens that need little followup if any and grow a good long time. Here in the good old USA we fear to violate nature's form because of overgeneralized overreaction to overpruning. Just because some do it wrong does not mean that reduction and thinning cuts should not be made.

 

[Trignog]

Just remember that silver maple is a baby,prone to fail,and has targets.The poster is obviously concerned.If it were in the middle of my yard I'd let it grow to a 100 foot spread and cable the crap out of it if need be. I dont believe thats a responible option for this tree.

 

[NeTree]

Thanks for bringing that up... back to the original ? about cabling...

Armchair opinion, of course... but I don't think I'd do anything at all with this tree. By the time it's big enough to pose a likely risk, I won't be here to have to worry about it.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

I don't think that Pondracer will come back. How do I know? I wrote to him off-line and he saw the responses. Not helpful or on-topic. He knows enough about trees to know that it needs some professional help. I'm trying to connect him with pros in his area that can help him save the tree. That's what he wants to do. Not be told how to spend his money. With on-sight help he'll be able to make a good decision.

Saying that silver maples fail so we should cut them down makes no sense. Gary Johnson who's the Urban Forestry professor at the U of MN has done post-storm surveys. He's adjusted the stats to account for tree population. Do you know the most likely tree to fail? Colorado Blue Spruce by a long shot. Add to the fact that it's the most planted species it accounts for a lot of removal work. Silver maples aren't that high on his list. Ash is much higher and people plant ash way too much and companies maintain them and make lots of money.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

This is in the email I got from Pondracer:

Yegads, I just checked my posting and read the replies. I'm not going to cut the ???? tree down, its perfectly healthy. Besides, I like the bark and overall look.

Am I crabbing? Maybe so...the style of responses to the question is becoming typical. Drop a bomb and don't back up what is said. I challenge people, I guess in a crabbing-way, to elaborate or justify what they say. The ones who say thin, head or remove sure haven't helped Pondracer understand why they give the advice. Mike and Treeseer are the ones doing the teaching and cleaning up. That disappoints me.

Time to go crab about why no one made me breakfast, again...

 

[treeseer]

Drop a bomb and don't back up what is said.

Tom, on an internet forum this is always going to happen. It's easier to deflect or ignore if it's not crabbed at. Now go eat some breakfast.