cambium savers

[NickfromWI]

Moray, your argument about the cambium saver isn't the case- The cover becomes the core when you make eye-eye slings THAT short out of 16 strand.

Regarding the split tails- some companies make theirs leaving in the original core strands, and some take it out and only use the 6 cover strands.

I use only the cover strands.

love
nick

 

[moray]

Moray, your argument about the cambium saver isn't the case- The cover becomes the core when you make eye-eye slings THAT short out of 16 strand.

love
nick

Nick, there is some part of this picture I am not getting. I am thinking you start with a short length of rope. It has two ends. Each of them ends up being the tip of the buried tail of an eye splice. Do they just butt against each other in the center of the eye-eye sling? Do you overlap them a bit in the center? I am thinking that if you don't overlap them, then the center point between the two eyes has nothing inside the cover, and therefore would be marginally weaker than the rope itself. I guess you must be overlapping them to make a REALLY short sling???

 

[NickfromWI]

Yes- overlapping them allows you to make shorter slings AND it like you have core in there. You end up with less distortion in the braid of the rope and you can retain much of the strength.

love
nick

 

[Jim1NZ]

Hey nick, im trying to splice 16 strand as above i have already started the splice and am up to pulling the cover strands through to form the eye (5D Samson instructions) but its such a mision! Its soo tight.

What do you reckon then? Remove all the core even for a split tail a? I wasn't actually trying to do a split tail splice even though it is a short piece of rope, just practicing for a climbing rope i wanted to splice.

Cheers

 

[moray]

Hey nick, im trying to splice 16 strand as above i have already started the splice and am up to pulling the cover strands through to form the eye (5D Samson instructions) but its such a mision! Its soo tight.

What do you reckon then? Remove all the core even for a split tail a? I wasn't actually trying to do a split tail splice even though it is a short piece of rope, just practicing for a climbing rope i wanted to splice.

Cheers

16-strand eye splices ARE very tight, real physical work to make. If you plan to use the eye at the end of your climbing rope, you obviously have to leave the core in the rope, and the core and the buried tail will overlap for some distance. But for a split tail you can make life a little simpler, as described above, by removing all the core. You make the splice the same way, but now there is no overlap. To replace the missing core, you need to make the buried part at the end of the taper (the final 6 strands) reach all the way to the end of the split tail.

 

[NickfromWI]

Jim, can you tell me specifically which part you're having trouble with. With a little practice, the splice should come together without much fuss or physical exertion.

Tell me which step you're on, and I'll see if I can make it easier for ya.

For a split tail, cut a piece 9' long. Mark the eye at the 5' mark (so that when you fold the rope at the eye, you have a 5' piece hanging below the eye and a 4' piece hanging below the eye). Do the taper on the 4' piece. By the time you pull the strands, the short piece will have grown to be LONGER than the 5' piece. Now do the splice and you just saved yourself a foot of rope. Not saying much, but if you have 100' of rope, you got yourself a free split tail at the end of it.

love
nick

 

[Jim1NZ]

Hey nick thought i would show you because i dont even know what im on about ha


The first photo im having trouble getting the outer strands through because its soo tight with the core in there too.

The second photo is of the six strands im trying to pull through and of the taper on the outer strands

 

[Jim1NZ]

Moray and nick thanks so much for the help!

 

[moray]

Jim, kudos on making your own! I've only made 3 or 4 in 16 strand. It got easier, but even the last one seemed like a lot of effort. But Nick is the pro, maybe he has some tricks to make it easier.

Your pics are very helpful. So far so good.

One trick: do the bury in stages. The first stage would be about half the distance from the eye to the spot where the core emerges. This is the hard one. As you pull the cover through, as each pair of loose strands is about to enter the rope, snip them off. It helps to work and bend and massage the rope near the eye after each hard pull. Instead of pulling the cover strands by hand, it can help if you tie them to something immovable. Then you can put both hands on the eye and put your weight into your pulling.

The second stage is to go the rest of the way to the spot where the core emerges, bringing your cover strands out on the opposite side of the rope from the core strands. This one is relatively easy.

The last stage is the overlap section. It helps pull out more core so the cover bunches up in the area of the overlap. Then you have more room to insert your fid while staying clear of the core strands inside.

I really liked the Brion Toss splicing video. He's funny, personable, intelligent, and full of useful info as he shows you every stage of the splicing process. If I had nothing to rely on but Samson's instructions, I might still be sweating over my first splice.

 

[Jim1NZ]

Thanks for the help once again Moray, so in the end i couldn't get the cover yarns past the core yarns for the tight overlap. I pulled out all the core yarns and managed to get the cover yarns through reasonably easy.

Is this going to be ok to climb on? That is after it has been stitched.

So it is a standard 16 strand splice with NO core what so ever.

Want a photo?

 

[moray]

Jim, is this for a split tail, or the climbing line?

As Nick pointed out, almost all the strength is in the cover, so failing to overlap core and cover in the buried splice isn't going to make the rope much weaker. It would seem the reason for the overlap, or for completely replacing core with buried cover in a split tail, is to maintain the mechanical properites of the rope. If there is only one section of the rope with nothing inside, that one section will be prone to bending and flattening like no other part of the rope.

I use Tenex for my split tails. I like the fact that it is hollow and flattens and conforms to the rope. But maybe (I have not heard of anyone doing this) if you made a split tail in 16 strand, removed all the core, and made a splice with the normal length of bury, you would get a mostly hollow split tail that would actually work better than the standard version. Worth a try!

With the stitching at the throat it is not going to pull apart.

Yes, show us a photo. I love photos.

 

[Jim1NZ]

Moray, this one is for a split tail, i dont climb on a split system but i just thought it would be a good starting splice. It seems good, i think it would make a good prussic, not too hard or soft.

The only thing i was concerned about is that it does not have any form of overlap, its just a straight bury so i was a bit worried about it pulling apart even if i stitched it.

Il get you a photo...

 

[Jim1NZ]

Photos....

 

[moray]

Pretty! Amazing how after all that struggle, it still comes out looking great.
The rule is: if you followed the directions and it comes out pretty, you are golden.

But now you have a problem. If you want an eye in the end of your climbing rope, you either have to master the overlap step or tolerate a short section of rope that is slightly weaker and a lot more flexible than the rest because it is hollow.

You are in uncharted waters here, but my guess is that you would be fine. The hollow section is about half a meter from your belt, it never rubs against anything or goes over a pulley. It just sits there in mid-air holding a load.

If you are at all worried about it, try breaking the one you just made. When you see how hard that is to do, you'll no longer be worried.

 

[Jim1NZ]

Yea thanks Morey i think your right.

It was an absolute piece of cake once i extracted the core. I followed the instructions carefully, it looks good and tight so o think il brake that one and see what happens.

I defiantly want core in my climbing line because it has to be super pretty for the climbing comps or they will not allow me to use my rope!

What if;

I took an extra 2 cover strands out of the bury, this would make it easier to pull past the core for the overlap...

I took a couple of core strands out back further form the overlap? So extract the core like normal but also back from the overlap, pull a couple of strands...

Or what about tapering both the cover like normal and also tapering the core too?

CHEERS

 

[moray]

Yea thanks Morey i think your right.

Or what about tapering both the cover like normal and also tapering the core too?

CHEERS

Well, they both DO get tapered, but first you have to get them to overlap, untapered. Even in this state, there is less material in the rope's center than in the area near the eye.

I use a Toss splice wand, which is very good for some applications, but definitely not so good for pulling the cover through the overlap area.

One trick that should definitely work that I have used frequently is to use sewing thread to bind together a bunch of tapered strands before pulling (or pushing) them into a splice. In your case, leave an extra 30 cm of tail when you begin the splice. When you get to the overlap step, taper that last 30 cm and bind it all together by wrapping and stitching with thread. This works better than using tape because tape tends to catch on stuff when you try to stuff it. Now it should be easy to get past the overlap area, because you are only talking about 2 or 3 strands. Now you pull the rest of the taper through, which is easy, and you are looking at a normal overlap. Your "helper" taper will just be discarded. Then you finish the splice according to instructions. That looks like Arbormaster in your photos. I have used the method I describe in Arbormaster with good success.

Keep us posted!

 

[NickfromWI]

That was split tail? Looks sharp. I like the tiny eye. That is how I make mine. How long is it? You can tie a fig 8 on a bight and break the sling to see if the splice beats the 8.

What if;

I took an extra 2 cover strands out of the bury, this would make it easier to pull past the core for the overlap...

I took a couple of core strands out back further form the overlap? So extract the core like normal but also back from the overlap, pull a couple of strands...

Or what about tapering both the cover like normal and also tapering the core too?

CHEERS

I wouldn't do either of them. There is no reason for it. Stick to the manufacturers directions and you'll be fine. In the finished splice, the cover tail AND the core get tapered.

love
nick

 

[Jim1NZ]

Yea that was a split tail and i will see how and where it brakes, good idea. It is about 1m long sorry i dont have it on me at the moment.

Ok il just follow the Samson instructions, its just i want a real nice taper - no bulge what so ever...

 

[jtrouse]

Splicing rope cambium savers

hey wondered if anyone has got any tips for spllicing rope cambium savers, photos would be helpfull as well as what the best way is to make a poor mans rope guide. Thanks
regards jim

 

[moray]

Wecome to the site, Jim. This shows the way I make them (bottom third of the photo). Haven't used a Rope Guide, but I want to experiment with a home-made version one of these days...