Can someone please explain Stihl chains to me?

[drf255]

Im really confused on chains for Stihl.

What's up with "picco"? Is it just a narrower tooth 3/8" chain?

Why are there .325 and 3/8 chains and bars if one saw can use both? Whats the benefit of one over another?

Case in point, I have a 3/8 RS on my 066. Goes through wood like butter. I have a 3/8 picco on my little echo 330 on a 14" bar. Goes through wood like butter.

I have an 18" .325 RS on my ms250. DOESNT go through wood like butter. So I ordered a picco for it.

My 028WB came with an 18" bar and a green .325 chain.

Im not getting the whole thing. Does the .325 chain have a narrower kerf even though the guides are .063?

 

[gary courtney]

picco normally on smaller cc saws for light limbing, the green indicates low kick back, non-pro use the cutter is smaller. usually they are .043 guides on these saws

 

[RedneckChainsawRepair]

http://www.stihlusa.com/WebContent/.../STIHL-Saw-Chain-Selection-Identification.pdf

http://www.stihlusa.com/information/how-to-guides/saw-chain-identification/

 

[old-cat]

How fast any chain cuts depends on how much power is pulling it and how it's sharpened, period.
Your hot rod MS250 should have NO problem pulling .325
.325 is smoother cutting than 3/8

 

[HarleyT]

You need to step back and separate the chains in their own category. first by pitch, big 3/8, .325, then picco=3/8 lo pro. Then they are different by cutter, RS is full chisel, RM is semichisel, properly sharpened, RS is much faster, but dulls quicker, as that square
corner gets dinged easily, the RM stays sharper longer, and cuts quite well. The green or yellow designation does not mean that one is full chisel or semi chisel, so just ignore that. They sell a yellow RM chain loop, it has no safety bumper straps, and put safety bumpers on a full chisel loop.

 

[palbin]

You need to step back and separate the chains in their own category. first by pitch, big 3/8, .325, then picco=3/8 lo pro. Then they are different by cutter, RS is full chisel, RM is semichisel, properly sharpened, RS is much faster, but dulls quicker, as that square
corner gets dinged easily, the RM stays sharper longer, and cuts quite well. The green or yellow designation does not mean that one is full chisel or semi chisel, so just ignore that. They sell a yellow RM chain loop, it has no safety bumper straps, and put safety bumpers on a full chisel loop.

Yeahh!

 

[AKDoug]

Im really confused on chains for Stihl.

What's up with "picco"? Is it just a narrower tooth 3/8" chain?

Why are there .325 and 3/8 chains and bars if one saw can use both? Whats the benefit of one over another?

Case in point, I have a 3/8 RS on my 066. Goes through wood like butter. I have a 3/8 picco on my little echo 330 on a 14" bar. Goes through wood like butter.

I have an 18" .325 RS on my ms250. DOESNT go through wood like butter. So I ordered a picco for it.

My 028WB came with an 18" bar and a green .325 chain.

Im not getting the whole thing. Does the .325 chain have a narrower kerf even though the guides are .063?

You have all of the chains onhand, so compare them .325 has a smaller tooth and narrower kerf than full sized 3/8. Post a close up photo of your .325 chain and maybe we can see why it doesn't cut. I run .325 on my 241 and 250's and it works great.

 

[Philbert]

What's up with "picco"? Is it just a narrower tooth 3/8" chain?

Lots of manufacturers make up trade names so that their products sound unique. 'Picco' is just STIHL's name for 3/8" low profile chain.
The pitch (average length between rivets) is still approximately 3/8 inches, but the the height of the tooth is reduced to take a smaller bite, for smaller, lower powered saws. It is best to think of this as a separate pitch than 'full size' or standard 3/8 pitch chain, as it requires separate sprockets and guide bars.

When the tooth is narrower, it is referred to as 'narrow kerf' chain. And, yes, there are some chains that are low profile AND narrow kerf!

Why are there .325 and 3/8 chains and bars if one saw can use both? Whats the benefit of one over another?

It is best to think of the saw as a system: powerhead, drive sprocket, guide bar, and chain. There are trade-offs when switching components. A larger drive sprocket will turn the chain faster, but with less torque (like gears on a mountain bike). A longer guide bar will let you cut larger logs, but with increased friction, and more teeth that have to be pulled. Larger size cutters on a chain will take larger bites, but fewer of them (larger cutters mean it takes fewer of them to make the same size loop). Smaller cutters will take smaller bites, but take more of them, and will cut smoother on smaller wood (e.g. when limbing).

So it is possible to set a specific saw up in many different combinations, depending on how it will be used. But the components (sprockets, guide bar, and chain) have to match. I think that there is a 'sweet spot' combination for each each saw, but others may disagree.

Does the .325 chain have a narrower kerf even though the guides are .063?

.325 narrow kerf chain makes a narrower cut than standard .325 chain. The width of the kerf may vary slightly between manufacturers. The width also narrows as the cutters are worn/filed/ground back with use. This is technically independent of the thickness of the drive links ('gauge'). STIHL, Oregon, and others will make .325 chain in .050, .058, and .063 gauges that have the exact same cutters on top, and cut the exact same kerf. The different gauges just fit different guide bar grooves.

I think of chain pitches in the following progression, going from smaller to larger saws:

1/4"; 3/8" low profile and narrow kerf; 3/8" low profile; .325" narrow kerf; .325"; 3/8"; .404"

Philbert

 

[SawTroll]

There are some inaccurate "info" posted here. Remember that the MS250 isn't a strong saw, and using regular 3/8" chain on it is just silly.
Also remember that 3/8 picco sprockets doesn't fit regular 3/8 chain, and vice versa - picco needs larger diameter sprockets, since the chassis of the chain is lower. Pitch is the same .366" on both, measured at the rivets though.

 

[SawTroll]

.... STIHL, Oregon, and others will make .325 chain in .050, .058, and .063 gauges that have the exact same cutters on top, and cut the exact same kerf. The different gauges just fit different guide bar grooves.

.....

That isn't 100% true with Oregon chain, as there is a differense between .063 and .058/.050. It is true with Stihl chain though.

 

[Franny K]

Lots of manufacturers make up trade names so that their products sound unique. 'Picco' is just STIHL's name for 3/8" low profile chain.

Picco may have resulted in part due to someone else putting a trademark next to low profile. I do not know which came first. It probably means something like small in another language. It appears to me Stihl uses this term for a 1/4 inch pitch chain as well. The 63 or pm,ps is 0.050 in "3/8". The 61 or pmm is 0.043 in "3/8" though some of their web stuff seems to be calling it 0.050 at this time. If you take the chains apart and measure things like the thickness of the tie straps and the diameter of the pivoting surface and how high from the bar the cutting edge is I believe it is fair to have their own name for a product that fits the same sprockets as 3/8 lo/pro. If one also measures the thickness of the Stihl 63 or .050 class 3/8 picco guide bars they are thicker than what has come on a Husky or Dolmar or Oregon branded bars by perhaps 10 thousands of an inch. The Sugihara bars for that seem to be more inline with the stihl bars for thickness. I can't comment on any others at the moment.

I re formatted your list
1/4";
3/8" low profile and narrow kerf; or 61 pmm
3/8" low profile; or 63 pm/ps
.325" narrow kerf;
.325";
3/8";
.404"

The 1/4 perhaps should be broken down as well if you are going to do so to 3/8lp and .325 that take different bars.

 

[AKDoug]

Picco was actually chosen because it does not mean anything in any language. (according to my Stihl rep)

 

[SawTroll]

Then we have low profile ,325 and 3/8" chain on the regular hight chassis, like Oregon 76/77 in 3/8 and the 30 series in .325, and Stihl Topic. The only one that remains today is the rather silly "green" 30 series SL chain....

 

[drf255]

Cool info guys. Thanks.

Something's just wrong with my combo. I set an 025 up with an OEM stihl bar and a .325 chain and it's chewing through wood. This chain is a full chisel yellow band chain. My link count or something may be off.

New chain on the way that matches my bar. It's an RM instead of an RS chain. I may do a video of the different chains on the same saw.

My 250 has had some work done to it (porting, MM and compression increase).

 

[justtools]

There are some inaccurate "info" posted here. Remember that the MS250 isn't a strong saw, and using regular 3/8" chain on it is just silly.
Also remember that 3/8 picco sprockets doesn't fit regular 3/8 chain, and vice versa - picco needs larger diameter sprockets, since the chassis of the chain is lower. Pitch is the same .366" on both, measured at the rivets though.

For most homeowners. I would feel that a ms250 is Strong enough. It is at least twice as fast as a hand saw. With the correct/sharp chain of course.

 

[AKDoug]

Cool info guys. Thanks.

Something's just wrong with my combo. I set an 025 up with an OEM stihl bar and a .325 chain and it's chewing through wood. This chain is a full chisel yellow band chain. My link count or something may be off.

New chain on the way that matches my bar. It's an RM instead of an RS chain. I may do a video of the different chains on the same saw.

My 250 has had some work done to it (porting, MM and compression increase).

If it's going on the bar, and it tightens up, it's not wrong with the driver count. New RM is not faster than new RS. If the new RM is faster than your RS, then you have to work on your sharpening. It's been said a thousand times around here, a stock saw with a sharp chain will outrun a ported saw with a dull chain. This is the big reason that many porters will video before and after cutting times with the same bar/chain/log to make sure any improvements were actually made.

 

[Philbert]

I re formatted your list . . . The 1/4 perhaps should be broken down as well if you are going to do so to 3/8lp and .325 that take different bars.

Thanks. I know that these are not all different pitch chains; but common chains in order of the amount of power needed to pull them.

Of course, there are or have been other: sizes of cutters, style cutters, sequences, drive sprockets, and and bar lengths. But among current, commonly used chains, this progression (in my mind) provides a sequence for 'stepping up' or 'stepping down' chain 'size' to better match the power of a given saw. The OP mentioned going down from .325 to 'picco'.

The STIHL MS 250 is a great, intermediate saw, that holds up far beyond expectations. We ran the snot out of them with 16 inch bars and .325 low kickback chain, and they did all that we could ask of them, as long as the chain was sharp, and the fuel was fresh.

Philbert

 

[Philbert]

Picco was actually chosen because it does not mean anything in any language. (according to my Stihl rep)

I thought it connotated a diminutive form of something, like a 'piccolo' is a small flute.

Philbert

 

[albert]

There are some inaccurate "info" posted here. Remember that the MS250 isn't a strong saw, and using regular 3/8" chain on it is just silly.
It's stronger than you give it credit for. .325 is the ideal set up. Most 3/8 lo pro chain will not hold up well..

 

[maico490]

Picco was actually chosen because it does not mean anything in any language. (according to my Stihl rep)

Italian for peak