Can you use the crane hook as your t.i.p.and rigging point?

[coydog]

I think that is a well thought out letter and hopefully will allow the standards to continue to evolve with tree care professionals who actually care to be compliant. The fact that the 2006 z-133 even address tying in to the crane is a huge step in the right direction, IMO, even if the language is incomplete. The instances in which a climber will remain tied into the load are so rare as to create a case by case safety plan that may not be able to be outlined in a few paragraphs of language. The one thing I have learned however, is that when straying off the path of established safety protocol, it is important to create a safety plan in writing in advance of the job, in which the reasoning for your decisions are outlined. For example, stating the OSHA regs requiring a positive locking device on the hook for a man basket which = personnell suspension, the rotation factor, separation of lifelines and rigging, etc. should all be put into writing before the job occurs, that way if something did happen, or even if OSHA or L&I show up to shut you down, you have documentation that sound judgement and interpretation of all available resources were used.

 

[diltree]

I recommend using a clevis shackle above the ball with a frictionsaver through the shackle for your lifeline.

This is the proper way to do it, dont listen to Jomoco: he is wrong on this issue.

 

[OTG BOSTON]

This is the proper way to do it, dont listen to Jomoco: he is wrong on this issue.

LOL.....I dunno Tim maybe he is on to something here. I guess I am still confused as to WHY he is so adament about being tied into the hook.

On another note, why not tie into a shackle above the ball with a srt rig and a mechanical decending device. It would certainly eliminate the twisting-tangling problem jomoco describes.

 

[JEff B]

On another note, why not tie into a shackle above the ball with a srt rig and a mechanical decending device. It would certainly eliminate the twisting-tangling problem jomoco describes.

interresting point, as long as you are going to ride the piece out, other wise, if staying in the tree, you will not be able to retrieve your climbing line (unless you bring another with you) but in that case the crane operator would have to deal with your SRT climbing line hanging down from the pick.

 

[diltree]

A locking clevis shackle that sits on the ball its self, and a cambium saver hanging from the shackle also eliminates the movement; and Ironically enough your tie in point ends up right next to the hook!

and a shout out to Jeff B as well.......

 

[juststumps]

i'm not positive, but i think when the regs state tying in above the hook,, i think they mean tying onto the tip of the boom of the crane... not tying onto the running line...i used to do a lot of work out of boom mounted baskets,,,and the tie in point for your harness was the tip of the boom ,, not the basket,,in case the basket failed... i would think the same would go for the load line.....

 

[OTG BOSTON]

interresting point, as long as you are going to ride the piece out, other wise, if staying in the tree, you will not be able to retrieve your climbing line (unless you bring another with you) but in that case the crane operator would have to deal with your SRT climbing line hanging down from the pick.

Thanks for the clarification Jeff. I was referring to a case when you would be riding the piece out.

When are you going to be done with school? Are you a doctor yet?

 

[diltree]

Thanks for the clarification Jeff. I was referring to a case when you would be riding the piece out.

When are you going to be done with school? Are you a doctor yet?

haha LMFAO...calling Dr. Baril

 

[tippit]

Jomoco, you are correct. I wonder if a crane manufacturer or Johnson Gunnebo which supplies the majority of the Pills and Blocks to the crane industry have ever seen this concept of tying in above the pill. The hook is designed to be the lifting point. It is trusted to carry thousands of pounds overhead. Why the need to add two more weak links and tie them where the engineers never conceived a load would be tied? Your right about the spinning of the wire rope when the load is set down but most units use a non spin cable these days and will eliminate that problem of the climbing line fouling the pill. I don't mind anyone tying above or below the pill, its a preference not a law. I don't understand why some on here want so badly to make it law though?

 

[GIZROID]

We took the tree down this week without any problems. Our other climber felt comfortable being tied into the tree. The crane set him in the tree and I rigged the branches. We got the tree down in less than 2 hrs. The tree ended up being solid in the center. There were 3 ant holes in the stem at 26' that were 1/4 inch diameter. All of the visible rot on the tree was superficial. The stem pick was 22' long and weighed 7,000 lbs. It's nice using a larger crane. Thanks again to everyone for all of the input and advice.

 

[jomoco]

I want to make it clear that my method of tying into clevis' on a hook with a locked gate is not the ANSI approved method. And while I spoke with the senior members on the ANSI committee who confirmed that my method was both safe and practical in their eyes, none of them would go on record endorsing my method, or state approval of it to me in writing.

So I want to make it perfectly clear that until the ANSI committee chandes their written specifications for acceptable crane TIP's, the method I use and have posted about on this forum, is unacceptable for use in ANSI's or any other agencies eyes.

I was wrong, and Diltree was right, and until the ANSI committee rewrites their specs, that's just the way it is, unfortunately.

Work safe!

jomoco

 

[tippit]

jomoco, what are the names of the senior members of the ansi committee that you are referring to. Because Johnson Gunnebo will state that it is completely unacceptable to place a load, even as little as 150lbs tied in above the pill to any thing that they have engineered to this date. Please forward any contact names that you might have of the senior members so I may contact them directly. National, Groves boom truck division in PA also feels it unacceptable but recommended I contact Johnson directly.

 

[lync]

I think the focus of the tie in point is to find a meathod/location for the climbers line where there is zero chance for that line to become unanchored.
Anchoring into the hook with a pinned safety catch seems ok. and using shackles to make the sling attachment to the wood would prevent the need for opening the hook safety latch. Personally I used a oval master link (1" thick bar stock formed into an oval, thats about 5" in diameter). Pull the cotter pin from the becket on the ball, push the ring up the cable, and repin the ball with a cotter pin. Totally bulletproof ,ring will not fit over the ball, and the climbing line runs smoothly over it.

Corey

 

[l2edneck]

DIDN'T READ THREAD.But,,,,Seen an article in this Months TCI and said.... man killed in basket picking from the crane....

thats a NO brainer,,what about if it spins and he(crane op) has to fly with the momentum to keep from flippin the crane?

rag doll climber.....

Never ever <u>stay</u> hooked to crane while makin the pick/cut....

GAWD im a hack and i know that.....

 

[BostonBull]

Heres how we do it.
Masterlink, sling(s), clevis through the pin hook. Tie into the MasterLink.

 

[jomoco]

jomoco, what are the names of the senior members of the ansi committee that you are referring to. Because Johnson Gunnebo will state that it is completely unacceptable to place a load, even as little as 150lbs tied in above the pill to any thing that they have engineered to this date. Please forward any contact names that you might have of the senior members so I may contact them directly. National, Groves boom truck division in PA also feels it unacceptable but recommended I contact Johnson directly.

Call Peter Gerstenberger at TCIA, and he will supply you with their names and contact info.

I've been informed that its very poor form to give out names and numbers for folks in a public forum.

Good luck

jomoco

 

[woodchux]

Seen an article in this Months TCI and said.... man killed in basket picking from the crane....

Here is a link to the story > http://www.hometownannapolis.com/vault/cgi-bin/gazette/view/2007G/10/27-41.HTM

 

[Canyonbc]

I would rope climb from the crane boom a few feet down from the cable pulley and rig loads out on the crane line to get started. This would mean swinging in free air as each piece is taken out and long hang times in the saddle.

There is a tendency for the climber to rotate some on their climbing rope as the piece is swung out to be lowered but the climber can stop the rotation by having a boot on each side of the lowering cable as the piece is lowered out. After the piece is unhooked from the pill the crane operator pulls up the pill so the climber can stand on top of it. Wear gloves. Once on top of the pill the crane operator places the climber and pill back into the tree for another piece. Standing on the pill keeps the climber from being 'beat up' by it plus takes a load off of the climbers butt in the saddle allowing a little moving around to keep the blood flowing.

Once you get some weight off of the tree it should be safe to hold the climbers weight. It's possible to take the whole tree out a piece at a time using this technique.

I have no experience with Crane work and tree work. But i want to know how this method (the diagram) above posted by TreeCo would be a safe effective way to do the tree.

Good to here it got down fast and safe...and the tree was solid.

Canyon

 

[Treetom]

As long as the crane doesn't tip over, tying into the boom sounds feasible. I'm just picturing an unbalanced limb flipping over and hitting the climbing line or sliding down the climbing line and hitting the climber (me). Personally, I have the crane operator use the hook to place me where I set the cinch, then climb to a safe position (preferably behing the tree trunk) and make my cut.

 

[Canyonbc]

You've got to remember that this technique is for trees that you do not trust to hold the climber. This is a good way to start off on a really weak tree until you get enough weight off of the tree to trust it to hold the climber.


If the tree can be trusted to hold the climber...then it is faster and easier to have the climber in the tree.

A technique I like is having a climber picked up on the pill, placed in the tree to connect the sling to the pill.....and that climber raps to the ground.....and another climber in the tree makes the cut. The limb gets lifted out and lowered, climber picked up, sets sling, raps to the ground. Repeat. Repeat. The man that stays in the tree doesn't have a lot of moving around to do....and when the raper riding the pill back in....the climber in the tree is ready to point out where to set the next pick....and has already moved to the position to make the cut. If over a house sometimes the pill riding climber comes down and is picked up off of the roof for some picks.

Yes, when i wrote my response there i was going under the well i am not sure how to say it but i 100% agree.

I wrote it under the impression that the tree was unstable to climb.

I def. agree..crane send the climber in the tree and go from there.

I like your idea though.

Sorry for this response to be so scattered.