Can't get Stihl 064 running

[Binthewoods]

I'm stumped on an 064 I've got sitting on my bench. I got it from a guy who claimed to have had it running recently but no longer running now. I checked it over and found the carb had been rebuilt with the diaphragm and gasket in the wrong order so I assumed it had been flooding. I fixed that and still can't get it to run or even fire.

I checked for spark with my cheap spark tester and it looks ok, I've tried squirting fuel into the cylinder with the carb disconnected and can't get it to fire. I've clamped the throttle open and pulled 20 plus times and can't get even a sputter. I checked the flywheel and the key is fine, and gapped correctly. I've tried a new spark plug.

The flywheel is the early 1122 400 1201 and the coil is a Bosch with #'s 2 204 222 108 and 041 and Made in Germany printed on it. I think it's the right combo.

It's got 160lbs compression and passed a pressure/vac test.

What should I try next? I have a flywheel, coil and starter from an MS660 would that all fit?

 

[irhunter]

I've tried squirting fuel into the cylinder with the carb disconnected and can't get it to fire.

Maybe what you did, above, is the same thing as: I would leave the carb all attached and plumbed and pour 1/2 teaspoon of mixed gas down the plug hole. Install plug and see if it pops.

I don't know what an AM Ebay carb costs for the 064. I deal with enough 026s to keep a $10 Ebay carb around as a test carb.

 

[Roanoker494]

You checked with a spark tester but have you checked the spark plug itself? Even at that plugs can seeming work outside the saw but fail under compression.

Verify the carb needles are about 1¼ turns out.

 

[Bob Hedgecutter]

new and improved
all the great pics etc are in the former version here:
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/064-066-ms660-18-flywheels-7-coils.282162/


Stihl Series 1122 Ignition Systems V2.0 07.28.15
064 1986-1997 066 1988-2003 MS660 2004-2014 MS650 2005-2012
Earliest illustrated parts list noted where known.


Flywheels – aluminum with single keyway unless noted.
1122 400 1201A – 064 for use with Bosch ignition, unlimited coils
1122 400 1202 – 066W, MS660 unlimited, new thicker style for heated handle and carb generator, POLY
1122 400 1203 - 064, 064R for use with limited coils 1303 [92.12ipl] (gap of .2 to .3mm)
1122 400 1203 (double keyway) - 064, 064R for use with limited or unlimited coils
Keyway X or B is furthest clockwise for unlimited coils
Keyway P is furthest counterclockwise for limited coils
1122 400 1203/1204 - marked with both but only one keyway, normally limited
1122 400 1204 – 064 – limited with retarded start timing (a’ la Mastermind’s pic)
1122 400 1204 (single keyway) – 064 for use with limited coils ONLY
1122 400 1204 (double keyway) – 064
Keyway X or B is furthest clockwise for unlimited coils
Keyway P is furthest counterclockwise for limited coils
1122 400 1206 – 064 unlimited for use with Bosch ignition and generator 3500 [87.1ipl]
1122 400 1207 - 064W limited for use with 1303 and generator 4000 or 3500
1122 400 1209 – 066 for limited coils
1122 400 1209/1214 - 066 marked with both numbers but only one keyway
1122 400 1209/1214 – 066 double keyway
Keyway X or B is furthest clockwise for unlimited coils
Keyway P is furthest counterclockwise for limited coils
1122 400 1210 – 066 for limited coils with generator
1122 400 1214 - 066, 066M unlimited with larger big end bearing from early 1995 [95.01ipl] **
1122 400 1215 – 066 redeye
1122 400 1216 - 066W unlimited for generator with larger big end bearing early 1995 [95.01ipl]
1122 400 1217P – 066 unlimited Polymer pre 1996
1122 400 1217 – MS650, MS660 (same as 1217p maybe)
1122 400 1218 – 066W unlimited Polymer thin style for heated handle generator

Generators
1118 400 4000 – 064W [92.12ipl]
1122 400 3500 – 064W [87.1ipl], 066W [95.01ipl]
1122 400 3501 – 066W, MS660
1122 400 3502 – 066W, MS660 (circa 1999) two windings for carb and handle heat

Ignition Coils
0000 400 1300 – 066 Lida standard unlimited “short” mount **
0000 400 1303 – 066 2nd Lida EY-V unlimited
0000 400 1305 – 066 Lida Standard unlimited
1122 400 1300 – 064, MS640 unlimited, Bosch E1-V “dogleg” mount [87.1ipl]
1122 400 1303 – 064 Prufex CDIC limited (12,000 RPM) Prufex [92.12ipl]
1122 400 1307 – 066 CDIC-A limited (13,500 RPM) including 066 red eye model
1122 400 1311 – 064/066 original Lida EY-V unlimited, easier starting, short life span [95.01ipl], installed starting X 31 067 164 on 064 and 066
1122 400 1312 - 066 poly flywheel three screw mount
1122 400 1314 – 066, MS650, MS660 Lida standard unlimited two screw mount

Trigger Units
No number shown - 064 September 1987 to mar 3rd 1991 [92.12ipl]

Important notes:

** - these items are widely available as good quality aftermarket components

1994 –
066 after X 29 588 002 new crankshaft with better bearing and cage
064/066 after X 31 067 164 new EY-V coil and unlimited flywheel

1995 -
066 Magnum USA model only OSHA noise reduction changes from # X 31 980 509.
066 first decompression valve # X 32 231 689.
064/066 after # X 31 815 798 crankcases have 4 mounting holes for brake cover instead of 3.

1996 -
066 after # X 33 917 066 all of the following - larger big end bearing, longer crankshaft with different ignition taper and larger threads, new crankcase, lightweight poly flywheel 1122-400-1217, new unlimited coil 0000 400 1303,

1997 –
064/066 after X 33 459 523 first plastic name badge
064/066 after x 35 661 524 new style tank valve/tank housing
064/066 after X 36 262 047 new oil-less HD air filter
064/066 after X 38 139 451 another new tank vent

1998 –
066 after X 39 176 186 EPA certified, limiter caps on WJ-69 carb, new cylinder timing,
Smaller exhaust openings

2002-
MS660 introduced

Have found this to be a good reliable 1122 ignition reference.

 

[Binthewoods]

Thanks Bob, the pictures in there help confirm that I have the right flywheel/coil combo. Mine matches 1122 400 1300. That rules out timing, I can't believe it hasn't at least fired or puttered once. I've tried multiple plugs.

 

[Bob Hedgecutter]

Thanks Bob, the pictures in there help confirm that I have the right flywheel/coil combo. Mine matches 1122 400 1300. That rules out timing, I can't believe it hasn't at least fired or puttered once. I've tried multiple plugs.

You have checked all the wiring eh?
Absolutely sure the HT is not grounding once in position on the plug when installed- but ungrounded with the plug removed to test?
Or the kill switch wires?

 

[Binthewoods]

You have checked all the wiring eh?
Absolutely sure the HT is not grounding once in position on the plug when installed- but ungrounded with the plug removed to test?
Or the kill switch wires?

I don’t see any issues, this is definitely my weak spot though. I just have a cheap inline spark tester that goes between the plug and the coil wire.

Could I disconnect the ground and the kill switch wire from the coil to rule them out?

 

[cookies]

yea disconnect them, if its not popping with a hair of fuel added I would suspect the coil is weak, the flywheel magnets are weak or both, possibly a worn through or bad plug wire or its end is making poor connection to the coil or plug

 

[Bob Hedgecutter]

I don’t see any issues, this is definitely my weak spot though. I just have a cheap inline spark tester that goes between the plug and the coil wire.

Could I disconnect the ground and the kill switch wire from the coil to rule them out?

Yep, if the wires all check out- then I too would be suspecting coil or flywheel.
I had a crook poly flywheel on an 066 recently that did my head in for a while. I assumed coil and swapped out several I had laying about- but it was a crook flywheel causing the trouble.
See if one pole is more magnetic than the other.

 

[L34]

BTW 660 flywheel won't fit.
Different size tapers.

 

[Binthewoods]

I found a fray in the spark plug wire where it goes against the case that was shorting it out. It still showed spark on the tester but it must have been weak. Fired up this morning, I’m excited to get it tuned and running!