Catalytic vs Secondary Burn Technology Advantages?

[Idahonative]

Amen!!Using the warranty is a No Go at this stage.

That's a good question. I can't seem to find warranty info on their site. I've heard the cat prices for Woodstock stoves are around half the amount of BK stoves. So, taking the initial stove price into consideration, you would have to buy a lot of cats for the Woodstock to make up for the upfront cost of the BK. Hope that makes sense, I think I jacked up my thoughts.

Ambull, I think the IS is the perfect stove for you. Buy it, use it, test it, and then share your results with the rest of us so we will know.

Is the warranty important to you? I hope not because, like you, I could not find any information anywhere on their website. So I called Woodstock this morning to see if they could tell me where it was. I asked the guy, "is your warranty information on your website...I can't seem to find it." His response was, "I think it is." But he was not able to tell me where to find it. So I asked him to explain the warranty to me. He said, "ONE YEAR, PARTS ONLY on the firebox and THREE YEAR PRO RATED on the cat." I almost laughed out loud. Are you kidding me? One year parts only is like having no warranty. What is a stove owner supposed to do, spend hundreds of dollars on shipping (not covered) to replace a $100 part (covered) that cost $300 in labor to fix (not covered)? Blaze King has a FIVE YEAR warranty on the firebox and they pay for the parts.

It's not my intention to pick on Woodstock. But I would be very leery of any company who doesn't stand behind their products with at least an industry average warranty. Especially since I've read about Woodstocks cats wearing out in one year. Could it have something to do with Woodstock NOT using precious metals in their cats like other manufacturers? According to their website: "The catalytic combustor is made of stainless steel foil." I have some real concerns about longevity and the efficiency differences between precious metals and stainless steel foil.

There's something else that just doesn't add up. The IS was the grand prize winner of the 2013 Woodstove Design Challenge. They talk a lot about how efficient it is on their website:

"In addition to record woodstove efficiency, the IDEAL STEEL Hybrid has a large 3.2 cubic foot firebox, will burn easily for over 12 hours on a load of wood, and will heat large living spaces."

A 3.2 cf firebox is a large firebox and this stove is supposed to have "record woodstove efficiency" but yet they advertise 12 hour burns? There are many BK Princess owners out there with their 2.85 cf firebox that consistently heat their homes for 20-30 hours per loading. How is that possible with a stove that has a smaller firebox and supposedly not as efficient as the IS? I do not believe the IS is in the same league as the Princess when it comes to real world efficiency. Let's not forget that the IS is not exactly cheap at around $2000. We could have bought a brand new Princess last year for $2700.

Another consideration is the fact that wood stoves are constantly expanding and contracting during use. This puts stress on "weak points" that can warp or break over time. It takes years to discover where all the weak points are. Designs that have been on the market for years (or decades) have been through this process. A new design like the IS has not and with their sub par warranty, it would no doubt be a deal breaker for me. And I don't believe the guy from Woodstock concerning the warranty. He doesn't know for sure if the warranty info is on their website? Isn't it his job to know something so basic? I believe it is a company decision not to publish the warranty because they know it definitely is not a selling point for their stoves. They just play dumb when someone calls up asking about it but with a little prodding, will give it out.

The more I learn about the IS the more concerns I have and after today, I don't have much respect for Woodstock as a company. I question their efficiency numbers and their lack of being forthright when a customer asks them something.

Burn what makes you happy but I think these are important considerations for would be buyers. And there is truth in the saying: Cheaper in the short run usually isn't cheaper in the long run.

 

[Ambull01]

There are some potentially useful discussions of cat long-term behavior on another site I can't mention. Something to do with "____Wood- ________ Club" if you follow my drift.

Tom Morrissey at Woodstock has written some interesting articles re cat/non-cat stoves and emissions. Woodstock's Hybrid stove reportedly works very well as a non-cat stove (at higher outputs) and as a cat at lower outputs. Not all black & white.

Thank you sir, I'll make my way to that site now and read my butt off.

I don't know how you found those articles. The website looks like a complete scam, they really need to improve it.

Secondary combustion must have some advantages at higher heat outputs or making a hybrid wouldn't make sense right? I need to look into this more lol.

On another note, what you been up to? Haven't seen you in a while. You've been working your new Tanaka saw or whatever it's called?

Ambull, I think the IS is the perfect stove for you. Buy it, use it, test it, and then share your results with the rest of us so we will know.

Is the warranty important to you? I hope not because, like you, I could not find any information anywhere on their website. So I called Woodstock this morning to see if they could tell me where it was. I asked the guy, "is your warranty information on your website...I can't seem to find it." His response was, "I think it is." But he was not able to tell me where to find it. So I asked him to explain the warranty to me. He said, "ONE YEAR, PARTS ONLY on the firebox and THREE YEAR PRO RATED on the cat." I almost laughed out loud. Are you kidding me? One year parts only is like having no warranty. What is a stove owner supposed to do, spend hundreds of dollars on shipping (not covered) to replace a $100 part (covered) that cost $300 in labor to fix (not covered)? Blaze King has a FIVE YEAR warranty on the firebox and they pay for the parts.

It's not my intention to pick on Woodstock. But I would be very leery of any company who doesn't stand behind their products with at least an industry average warranty. Especially since I've read about Woodstocks cats wearing out in one year. Could it have something to do with Woodstock NOT using precious metals in their cats like other manufacturers? According to their website: "The catalytic combustor is made of stainless steel foil." I have some real concerns about the efficiency differences between precious metals and stainless steel foil.

There's something else that just doesn't add up. The IS was the grand prize winner of the 2013 Woodstove Design Challenge. They talk a lot about how efficient it is on their website:

"In addition to record woodstove efficiency, the IDEAL STEEL Hybrid has a large 3.2 cubic foot firebox, will burn easily for over 12 hours on a load of wood, and will heat large living spaces."

A 3.2 cf firebox is a large firebox and this stove is supposed to have "record woodstove efficiency" but yet they advertise 12 hour burns? There are many BK Princess owners out there with their 2.85 cf firebox that consistently heat their homes for 20-30 hours per loading. How is that possible with a stove that has a smaller firebox and supposedly not as efficient as the IS? I do not believe the IS is in the same league as the Princess when it comes to real world efficiency. Let's not forget that the IS is not exactly cheap at around $2000. We could have bought a brand new Princess last year for $2700.

Another consideration is the fact that wood stoves are constantly expanding and contracting during use. This puts stress on "weak points" that can warp or break over time. It takes years to discover where all the weak points are. Designs that have been on the market for years (or decades) have been through this process. A new design like the IS have not and with their sub par warranty, it would no doubt be a deal breaker for me. And I don't believe the guy from Woodstock concerning the warranty. He doesn't know for sure if the warranty info is on their website? Isn't it his job to know something so basic? I believe it is a company decision not to publish the warranty because they know it definitely is not a selling point for their stoves. They just play dumb when someone calls up asking about it but with a little prodding, will give it out.

The more I learn about the IS the more concerns I have and after today, I don't have much respect for Woodstock as a company. I question their efficiency numbers and their lack of being forthright when a customer asks them something.

Burn what makes you happy but I think these are important considerations for would be buyers. And there is truth in the saying: Cheaper in the short run usually isn't cheaper in the long run.

Hell BrianK already made a great thread about the IS. He's much more experienced than I. If I made a thread about a stove on this site and a newb listened to what I said it would be the blind leading the blind.

The warranty thing is truly odd. I asked a dude on another site and he posted some numbers from his paperwork. Don't understand why that info isn't front and center on their website.

Hell I have a freaking 50 ft roll of stainless steel foil in my kitchen drawer right now! lol. I can make my own cat.

Read this about the stated burn time: http://blog.woodstove.com/2013/12/under-hood-12-ideal-steel-hybrid-burn.html

I wouldn't know what the hell was on the site either if I worked for them. That website was made by a blind man I tell ya.

Anyways, I don't want to keep going back and forth with this nonsense. I have no dog in this fight since I don't own a IS. Right now I'm running a POS tiny toy looking insert. There's lots of info about the IS on the site CTYank referred to and hearth. There's members there backing up the company saying they provide exceptional CS, free no cost replacement parts, etc.

Oh yeah, almost forgot. Where have you read about Woodstock cats going out in one year? I want to read about it before I make a deposit lol. Thanks

 

[NSMaple1]

What are you usin an OWB?

An OWB is out of the question for me. They burn too much wood and are too much of an investment in more ways than one IMO.

I've strongly considered an indoor boiler or a wood stove with heat coils like the thermo control. I would have to plumb in a thermal storage tank but a self built tank can be made easily on a budget.

My only reservation about a full blown IWB is every one I've ever seen let out a lot of smoke when it was refueled and that does not jive well with me. The reason I like my current stove is because I can successfully refuel it without it ever leaking smoke into the house. Sure there are a few occasions in the whole year that mine might burp (self induced) but compared to my BIL with his LOPI stove wher I can see the soot on his walls I'm way ahead.

Anyways, the discussion about cat vs secondary burn is still applicable when talking about IWB's, I just am less familiar with what's available vs free standing stoves...

Regardless, my current setup is in the basement of my home. I have a 1850 sqft ranch over the basement constructed in 1999. The basement is unfinished with concrete floor and has a walkout with a garage door. One third if the basement is divided off with an uninsulated wall. The smaller side if the basement is where the stove and walkout is. The house is heated through natural convection/radiation and I currently burn about 6-7 cord keeding it 72-75F.

Thanks for the input so far.

Missed your question.

I have a gassifying boiler, with 660 gallons of storage (LP tanks with water). All in my basement. Along with the whole winters wood. If you're looking for comfort, efficiency, and operational flexibility - that's the ticket. No creosote, no chimney cleaning. Mine is natural draft, if you go with that or induced draft (as opposed to forced), you will get no smoke spillage.

If I couldn't or didn't want to do a boiler in the basement, I would put the same setup (indoor gassifying boiler with storage & all winters wood) in an insulated outbuilding (call it a big shed or a small shop/barn). You could also do that but put the storage in the basement if that was a possibility or want.

 

[CTYank]

Thank you sir, I'll make my way to that site now and read my butt off.

I don't know how you found those articles. The website looks like a complete scam, they really need to improve it.

Secondary combustion must have some advantages at higher heat outputs or making a hybrid wouldn't make sense right? I need to look into this more lol.

On another note, what you been up to? Haven't seen you in a while. You've been working your new Tanaka saw or whatever it's called?

Sir, hell! I'm a civilian now. If you're thinking of the same website I am, you might note one huge difference there- no ankle-biting snipers, or at least notably few. Much less animus.

Secondary combustion is what it's all about. Period. Getting unburnt volatiles and CO to burn, and recover huge amounts of heat by so doing. Difference is that in a non-cat the mix of secondary air and fuel gas must be above something like 1100 F to light off. With a cat, that can happen at much lower temp. I've heard 650 F will do it. That's why cat stoves exist- longer, lower, slower burns.

My take on the Woodstock Hybrid, talking to Tom Morrissey at an open house in Lebanon NH a few years ago was that the stove could give the cat some time-off at higher outputs. Saving it from thermal stress there. Their soapstone stoves are a thing of beauty, and efficiency. If you're up by the jct of I-91 and I-89, they're not hard to find, east by the airport. They like visitors.

Been busy. Not that interested in jawin', prefer sawin', and a couple of the folks I volunteer with recently got federal assistance funding approved for reforestation AFTER we clean up huge amounts of "Superstorm Sandy" damage. Could be enough work 'til mid-summer at very large Audubon Center, alone. That little 33 cc Tanaka saw is like the "Energizer Bunny" of chainsaws, works great for limbing and busting up brush from tops, to size for hauling crew. Did you get one? A freebie at that price. Just yesterday, it had a new big brother arrive, to help with the backlog (lousy pun)- a 576XP.

 

[Ambull01]

Sir, hell! I'm a civilian now. If you're thinking of the same website I am, you might note one huge difference there- no ankle-biting snipers, or at least notably few. Much less animus.

Secondary combustion is what it's all about. Period. Getting unburnt volatiles and CO to burn, and recover huge amounts of heat by so doing. Difference is that in a non-cat the mix of secondary air and fuel gas must be above something like 1100 F to light off. With a cat, that can happen at much lower temp. I've heard 650 F will do it. That's why cat stoves exist- longer, lower, slower burns.

My take on the Woodstock Hybrid, talking to Tom Morrissey at an open house in Lebanon NH a few years ago was that the stove could give the cat some time-off at higher outputs. Saving it from thermal stress there. Their soapstone stoves are a thing of beauty, and efficiency. If you're up by the jct of I-91 and I-89, they're not hard to find, east by the airport. They like visitors.

Been busy. Not that interested in jawin', prefer sawin', and a couple of the folks I volunteer with recently got federal assistance funding approved for reforestation AFTER we clean up huge amounts of "Superstorm Sandy" damage. Could be enough work 'til mid-summer at very large Audubon Center, alone. That little 33 cc Tanaka saw is like the "Energizer Bunny" of chainsaws, works great for limbing and busting up brush from tops, to size for hauling crew. Did you get one? A freebie at that price. Just yesterday, it had a new big brother arrive, to help with the backlog (lousy pun)- a 576XP.

Hope I have the right site. It's firewood hoarders club right? Only been a member there for a real short time. Haven't even posted yet, just doing a lot of reading. Seems very civilized. I really like three firewood/chainsaw/wood stove sites so far. They're all different so it keeps me interested. Hearth is filled with wood Nazis so I go there to roll my eyes about seasoning white oak for at least 3 years, FHC to read about stoves/wood burning without having to weave through BS, and this site to learn you need at least a 60cc.

I've been reading more about how and why woodstock designed the IS. I'm liking it more and more.

So you met the owner, cool. I need to take a drive up there soon. Wife wants to visit Maine so may swing by on the way up.

Can't believe people are still clearing up Sandy damage. No I don't have a Tanaka, I'm taking a break from CAD right now. Caught myself getting too into accumulating chainsaws. Read Thoreau a couple years ago and found it to be the best book I've read. I wanted to kinda model my life around his mentality and I can't do that with 50 chainsaws lol. I want something light in the future though, my Makita 6421 is a bit heavy.

 

[BrianK]

Could it have something to do with Woodstock NOT using precious metals in their cats like other manufacturers? According to their website: "The catalytic combustor is made of stainless steel foil." I have some real concerns about longevity and the efficiency differences between precious metals and stainless steel foil.

With catalytic combustors the precious metals are impregnated on a substrate like ceramic or stainless steel foil. In this case, the stainless steel foil is used instead of a ceramic honeycomb substrate because it makes for far more surface area (and therefore higher efficiencies) as well as far better resistance to thermal shock. Stainless steel most certainly is not used instead of precious metals.

 

[BrianK]

Where have you read about Woodstock cats going out in one year? I want to read about it before I make a deposit lol. Thanks

There were a few reports of the early catalytic combustors on the early models of the Woodstock Progress Hybrid failing prematurely. That is not a widespread problem among stainless steel cats in general or among Woodstock's products, and was taken care of promptly by Woodstock in those few cases.

Stainless steel cats are quickly becoming industry standard.

Condar's Blaze King cat "upgrades" are all stainless: http://www.woodstovecombustors.com/blazeking.html

 

[Idahonative]

There were a few reports of the early catalytic combustors on the early models of the Woodstock Progress Hybrid failing prematurely. That is not a widespread problem among stainless steel cats in general or among Woodstock's products, and was taken care of promptly by Woodstock in those few cases.

Stainless steel cats are quickly becoming industry standard.

Condar's Blaze King cat "upgrades" are all stainless: http://www.woodstovecombustors.com/blazeking.html

Brian, who makes the cat for the Woodstock Ideal Steel stove and what country do they make them in?

And since you probably know more about the company than most, do you have any input concerning their warranty that was discussed in the above posts?

 

[BrianK]

Brian, who makes the cat for the Woodstock Ideal Steel stove

Both BK and Woodstock cats use stainless steel DuraFoil according to the VP of BK.

do you have any input concerning their warranty that was discussed in the above posts?

From my owner's manual:

We are sure you will enjoy your new stove. During the first six
months that you own it, test its performance and experience the
comfortable warmth of soapstone. If you are not thoroughly delighted
with the beauty, quality, and energy efficiency of your stove, you
may return it for a full refund, including the cost of return freight.
This is the best consumer protection plan in the industry.
LIMITED WARRANTY
Your Woodstock Soapstone Stove will be carefully inspected before
shipment. We will replace any part which is defective in material or
workmanship, free of cost, for a period of one year from the date of
purchase. If a defect is discovered, please contact Woodstock
Soapstone Company, Inc. for instructions regarding return or
replacement of the defective part.
CATALYTIC COMBUSTOR
WARRANTY
The catalytic combustor in your Ideal Steel Hybrid Catalytic Wood
Stove is fully warranted for three years from the date of purchase
against any defect in workmanship or materials that prevent the
combustor from functioning when installed and operated properly.
The catalytic combustor is additionally warranted for three years
from the date of purchase for any deterioration in the stainless steel
substrate material.​

And from their website:

The EPA warranty on catalytic combustors covers free replacement for the first three years from date of stove shipment. Years 4-6 are pro-rated. Call us at 1-800-866-4344 to order if your stove is less than 6 years old.
​

Despite the written warranty above, I personally know many Woodstock owners who have received free replacement parts and service many years after purchase. Their customer service is universally acknowledged as one of the best in the business and very generous and accommodating.

And other than owning their products, I have no relations with the company. I'm just a happy customer.

 

[Ambull01]

Same company that makes them for Blaze King. (So be careful about criticizing Woodstock's cats. You're also criticizing BK's. Fortunately my replacement cat is a third the cost of a Blaze King cat.) Both of their cats use stainless steel DuraFoil according to the VP of BK.



From my owner's manual:

We are sure you will enjoy your new stove. During the first six
months that you own it, test its performance and experience the
comfortable warmth of soapstone. If you are not thoroughly delighted
with the beauty, quality, and energy efficiency of your stove, you
may return it for a full refund, including the cost of return freight.
This is the best consumer protection plan in the industry.
LIMITED WARRANTY
Your Woodstock Soapstone Stove will be carefully inspected before
shipment. We will replace any part which is defective in material or
workmanship, free of cost, for a period of one year from the date of
purchase. If a defect is discovered, please contact Woodstock
Soapstone Company, Inc. for instructions regarding return or
replacement of the defective part.
CATALYTIC COMBUSTOR
WARRANTY
The catalytic combustor in your Ideal Steel Hybrid Catalytic Wood
Stove is fully warranted for three years from the date of purchase
against any defect in workmanship or materials that prevent the
combustor from functioning when installed and operated properly.
The catalytic combustor is additionally warranted for three years
from the date of purchase for any deterioration in the stainless steel
substrate material.​

And from their website:

The EPA warranty on catalytic combustors covers free replacement for the first three years from date of stove shipment. Years 4-6 are pro-rated. Call us at 1-800-866-4344 to order if your stove is less than 6 years old.
​

Despite the written warranty above, I personally know many Woodstock owners who have received free replacement parts and service many years after purchase. Their customer service is universally acknowledged as one of the best in the business and very generous and accommodating.

And other than owning their products, I have no relations with the company. I'm just a happy customer.

So the same company makes the cats yet BK charges more to replace them? What the hell!?

I keep hearing glowing praises about their customer service. Can't wait to visit their shop!

I've been reading Woodstock has been known to ship upgraded stove items to people that bought older models. Only question now is how do I get on the beta tester list! You need some free help cutting/splitting/stacking firewood?

 

[BrianK]

So the same company makes the cats yet BK charges more to replace them? What the hell!?

I keep hearing glowing praises about their customer service. Can't wait to visit their shop!

I've been reading Woodstock has been known to ship upgraded stove items to people that bought older models. Only question now is how do I get on the beta tester list! You need some free help cutting/splitting/stacking firewood?

I edited my post above because I can't verify who currently makes Blaze King's cats. I just know that on another forum, the VP of BK said that both BK and Woodstock use the stainless steel DuraFoil in their cats.

BKs cats might be twice as big as my cat, I don't know, but that might be why the price differential exists.

I don't have any pull with Woodstock, I just volunteered to Beta test in the summer of 2013, and was in the right place at the right time.

 

[Ambull01]

I edited my post above because I can't verify who currently makes Blaze King's cats. I just know that on another forum, the VP of BK said that both BK and Woodstock use the stainless steel DuraFoil in their cats.

BKs cats might be twice as big as my cat, I don't know, but that might be why the price differential exists.

I don't have any pull with Woodstock, I just volunteered to Beta test in the summer of 2013, and was in the right place at the right time.

I think it really is Condar, only thing I see from searching. They run about $300 it looks like.

You do now right? The owner mentioned you by name in his blog.

 

[BrianK]

You do know right? The owner mentioned you by name in his blog.

Yes, I've met the owner Tom a number of times. He is a good man.

 

[1project2many]

He said, "ONE YEAR, PARTS ONLY on the firebox and THREE YEAR PRO RATED on the cat."

Many companies are moving away from pro rata warrantees. This company may follow suit in the future.

What is a stove owner supposed to do, spend hundreds of dollars on shipping (not covered) to replace a $100 part (covered) that cost $300 in labor to fix (not covered)? Blaze King has a FIVE YEAR warranty on the firebox and they pay for the parts.

You might want to rethink how warranty works. There are really only two ways for the manufacturer to pay for warranty repair and stay in business. Either they pay the cost directly and charge the customers when a stove is purchased to make up the expense or they purchase insurance and charge the customers for the policy. The cost of the Blaze King suggests you may be pre-paying the actual cost of any warranty replacement parts.

 

[al-k]

In a off topic reply BrianK i like your splitter that must really save your back.

 

[Marine5068]

Thank you sir, I'll make my way to that site now and read my butt off.

I don't know how you found those articles. The website looks like a complete scam, they really need to improve it.

Secondary combustion must have some advantages at higher heat outputs or making a hybrid wouldn't make sense right? I need to look into this more lol.

On another note, what you been up to? Haven't seen you in a while. You've been working your new Tanaka saw or whatever it's called?



Hell BrianK already made a great thread about the IS. He's much more experienced than I. If I made a thread about a stove on this site and a newb listened to what I said it would be the blind leading the blind.

The warranty thing is truly odd. I asked a dude on another site and he posted some numbers from his paperwork. Don't understand why that info isn't front and center on their website.

Hell I have a freaking 50 ft roll of stainless steel foil in my kitchen drawer right now! lol. I can make my own cat.

Read this about the stated burn time: http://blog.woodstove.com/2013/12/under-hood-12-ideal-steel-hybrid-burn.html

I wouldn't know what the hell was on the site either if I worked for them. That website was made by a blind man I tell ya.

Anyways, I don't want to keep going back and forth with this nonsense. I have no dog in this fight since I don't own a IS. Right now I'm running a POS tiny toy looking insert. There's lots of info about the IS on the site CTYank referred to and hearth. There's members there backing up the company saying they provide exceptional CS, free no cost replacement parts, etc.

Oh yeah, almost forgot. Where have you read about Woodstock cats going out in one year? I want to read about it before I make a deposit lol. Thanks

I too am wary of Woodstock having no info of their warranty on the site. Plus I'm not a fan of the old Victorian looking stoves they make anyways. I like a bit more of a contemporary look. Not ultra-modern, but classic contemporary. They have nothing in the way of style that catches my eye. I guess my new stove will be a BK....Expensive, but worth it.

 

[Marshy]

Many companies are moving away from pro rata warrantees. This company may follow suit in the future.



You might want to rethink how warranty works. There are really only two ways for the manufacturer to pay for warranty repair and stay in business. Either they pay the cost directly and charge the customers when a stove is purchased to make up the expense or they purchase insurance and charge the customers for the policy. The cost of the Blaze King suggests you may be pre-paying the actual cost of any warranty replacement parts.

I'll play devils advocate and say the additional cost of BK might just be because it is a superior stove. Its larger which costs a little more money to make and has been tested using the HHV and LHV methods. ASAIK the efficiency ratings of the Woodstock are not tested per the HHV or LHV method (its not disclosed on their site if they were or not). If I had to guess, it likely expensive to put a product through that testing. I'm sure there is more to it that that but just something that comes to mind.

I never intendet this thread to become a BK vs XX stove thread. It seems like BK stoves are in the lime light right now but I really havent found a comparable cat stove (size and performance wise) so for now it seems to be the center of discussion.

 

[Ambull01]

I too am wary of Woodstock having no info of their warranty on the site. Plus I'm not a fan of the old Victorian looking stoves they make anyways. I like a bit more of a contemporary look. Not ultra-modern, but classic contemporary. They have nothing in the way of style that catches my eye. I guess my new stove will be a BK....Expensive, but worth it.

I think the no warranty listed thing has a lot to do with their vision/way of doing business if you will. From what I've read they are a really small company that's been around for a real long time. Doesn't seem like they have any desire to become a huge company or they would have by now. They're more of a mom and pop type of operation which is almost unheard of nowadays. If you read other sites there are many people that vouch for the company. Even people who have since switched stoves for one reason or another all have no complaints about customer service. All that has alleviated any concern I had. Still, they really need to pay someone to fix their site.

I live in a Victorian style house so it will fit perfectly. The all white model looks the best IMO and I hear it gives great fire views. Cost and no fire view may be the only downside to the BKs. There's also some discussion about creosote/soot build up with BKs since the flue gas temps are really low. Seems like a real minor issue though.

I'll play devils advocate and say the additional cost of BK might just be because it is a superior stove. Its larger which costs a little more money to make and has been tested using the HHV and LHV methods. ASAIK the efficiency ratings of the Woodstock are not tested per the HHV or LHV method (its not disclosed on their site if they were or not). If I had to guess, it likely expensive to put a product through that testing. I'm sure there is more to it that that but just something that comes to mind.

I never intendet this thread to become a BK vs XX stove thread. It seems like BK stoves are in the lime light right now but I really havent found a comparable cat stove (size and performance wise) so for now it seems to be the center of discussion.

All very true. If the BKs were rear vent I would really look at them. I need rear vent to use my existing chimney so BKs are a No Go. Would be nice to have the massive firebox size of the King.

 

[Ambull01]

ASAIK the efficiency ratings of the Woodstock are not tested per the HHV or LHV method (its not disclosed on their site if they were or not). .

http://www.woodstove.com/ideal-steel-hybrid/29-info/information

Found this, kind of old though.

The method for testing efficiency has been specified once again as the Low Heat Value of wood (LHV)*. Efficiency was calculated using the Lower Heat Value (LHV)* for the 2009-2011 tax credit. Using this method all of the Woodstock Soapstone Woodstoves exceed the minimum 75% efficiency requirement.

Woodstock Soapstone Model HHV* LHV*

• 209 Progress Hybrid ..........81.00% 88.00%

• 205 Fireview .. ...........80.9% ..90.9%

• 204 Keystone ...............75.8% .....85.1%

• 202 Palladian ...............75.8% ...85.1%

• 200 Classic ..........78.3% ....88.7%

These results have been independently confirmed by Omni Test Laboratories Inc. 13327 NE Airport Way, Portland, OR. 97230 and by Intertek

No IS data that I can find. The IS is supposed to be an improved version of the PH so I would think the percentages should be lower.

From BK: http://www.blazeking.com/EN/efficiency.html

Efficiency & Emissions.
Wood Stoves
Model Model # LHV Tested Efficiency HHV Tested Efficiency Emissions (grams/hour)
King KE 1107 88% 82% 1.76
Princess PE 1006 88% 81% 2.42
Ashford 30 AF 30 81% 75% 0.97
Chinook 30 CK 30 81% 75% 0.97
Sirocco 30 SC 30 81% 75% 0.97
Ashford 20.1 AF 20 83% 77% 1.3
Chinook 20 CK 20 83% 77% 1.3
Sirocco 20 SC 20 83% 77% 1.3
Royal Guardian RGT 3001 83% 71.1% 5.8
Briarwood II BR II/90 79.7% 71.4% 3.5

 

[Ambull01]

Damn it! Tried to make the BKs numbers lined up nice and pretty but they all went back to original format lol. Just wasted 5 minutes of my life doing that.