Catalytic vs Secondary Burn Technology Advantages?

[1project2many]

Manufacturer's graphs showing output over time would do much to help evaluate this. Anecdotal evidence is much less reliable. There was a Blaze King owner here claiming 40 hrs of heat out of a single fill a few years ago. Turned out he was in a small shack with a big stove and he found coals in the ashes 40 hrs after he started his fire. 40 hrs of something still burning in the stove is not the same as 40 hrs of useful heat. Gauging and comparing useful heat output is tougher without objective data.

I've read some of Chris' replies to other threads. I have a feeling that you could learn something about the terms used in engineering and science if you pay attention to what he says.

 

[anlrolfe]

I've heard too much crying over the years of catalytic combustors going bad leaving a once high end stove nearly useless. A few I've known removed the catalytic unit and tried to operate their stoves without. They reported terrible efficiency and poor performance after the amputation. Exercising the catalytic up to a high temp especially at first start has got to help but plugging will happen all the quicker if the stove is run infrequently or low output for extended times. Is that partially operator error, perhaps.

IMHO, I like the secondary burn stoves that don't use burner tubes. Some use a steel plate that "washboards" across the top of the firebox.

Aim towards the top of this list and you'll do good in the long haul:

 

[Chris-PA]

The "real science" is sitting in my living room as we speak, heating our home for 24 hrs. straight on pine. Tell your buddy Brian to try that with his super efficient Ideal Steel. He'd be lucky to get 8 hours. You see Chris, unlike you, I actually own and operate one of the stoves being discussed. When you buy your Ideal Steel, come back and we can have a grown up discussion. Until then, you have been grounded from my class and won't be allowed to participate

So what? When did I ever address the absolute burn time of your stove? I guess since I'm unlikely to own either of these stoves then I'll never get how the magic works?

I find your attitude to be rather arrogant. You are not holding class here and I'm surely not your student - you don't get to assume a position of authority just because you'd like it to be so. Further you are not teaching anything. You've made claims that are poorly defined and refuse to specify what you really mean, and now use an appeal to authority to try to end the discussion without having supported those claims. That's not how "grown ups" discuss things, rather it smells like a con job that got exposed.

By following the energy flow from the source in the logs to it's final dissipation at the local background temperature one can evaluate claims rather quickly, whether one owns the product or not. Your claims are like a half-finished high school math word problem, in that you've carefully avoided supplying the last bit of information so they cannot be evaluated (and risk being shown to be false).

I get that you like your stove, and it may well be a very good one, but it is not magic. It cannot delver multiple time more energy into the living space when compared to other similar design stoves that are proven to burn with equivalent combustion efficiency.

IMHO, I like the secondary burn stoves that don't use burner tubes. Some use a steel plate that "washboards" across the top of the firebox.

That is how both of mine are - they seem quite sturdy and I've seen no signs of deterioration or clogging.

 

[Idahonative]

So what? When did I ever address the absolute burn time of your stove? I guess since I'm unlikely to own either of these stoves then I'll never get how the magic works?

I find your attitude to be rather arrogant. You are not holding class here and I'm surely not your student - you don't get to assume a position of authority just because you'd like it to be so. Further you are not teaching anything. You've made claims that are poorly defined and refuse to specify what you really mean, and now use an appeal to authority to try to end the discussion without having supported those claims. That's not how "grown ups" discuss things, rather it smells like a con job that got exposed.

By following the energy flow from the source in the logs to it's final dissipation at the local background temperature one can evaluate claims rather quickly, whether one owns the product or not. Your claims are like a half-finished high school math word problem, in that you've carefully avoided supplying the last bit of information so they cannot be evaluated (and risk being shown to be false).

I get that you like your stove, and it may well be a very good one, but it is not magic. It cannot delver multiple time more energy into the living space when compared to other similar design stoves that are proven to burn with equivalent combustion efficiency.

That is how both of mine are - they seem quite sturdy and I've seen no signs of deterioration or clogging.

Settle down Chris. You are taking this too seriously...my comments to you were in good fun. I've read a lot of your posts on this site and for the most part, found them useful.

Visited another site this morning and the first person I thought of was you and your need for "evidence". One Ideal Steel owner put some info out this morning that supports what I'm saying. Appears to me that his Ideal Steel is struggling to heat his home OVERNIGHT with the colder temps:

"Just walked by the t-Stat and has dropped to 67*. Highs of 14* and cloudy I may have to throw a small load in during the day"

Keep in mind, this is coming from one of the die hard Ideal Steel owners over there. I want you to pay particular attention to the frowny face because that speaks volumes how this owner feels. Scientific evidence? Who needs it...just listen to the Ideal Steel owners in their own words. If anyone wants the address, PM me.

It looks like it's gotten so dicey over there that the "head Ideal Steel leader" posted today, "PM sent to the IS owners". I can only imagine what was said. It probably went something like this: Hey guys, be really careful what you say about your Ideal Steel. People are watching our thread and posting what we say on other sites. Can't have real world burn times getting out there because it might support what Idahonative is saying.

It's gotten to the point where BrianK doesn't want to post anything on this forum: "There's just too much pathological behavior going on here to have a rational reasonable discussion." I guess the facts are hard to discuss if everyone's not on board with the stove you love. It's much easier to go to another site where other like minded owners can stroke your ego.

 

[BeatCJ]

I'm tired of the bickering.

I'll probably not come back to this thread. Too bad, it started out as good discussion.

 

[Chris-PA]

Settle down Chris. You are taking this too seriously...my comments to you were in good fun. I've read a lot of your posts on this site and for the most part, found them useful.

Visited another site this morning and the first person I thought of was you and your need for "evidence". One Ideal Steel owner put some info out this morning that supports what I'm saying. Appears to me that his Ideal Steel is struggling to heat his home OVERNIGHT with the colder temps:

"Just walked by the t-Stat and has dropped to 67*. Highs of 14* and cloudy I may have to throw a small load in during the day"

Keep in mind, this is coming from one of the die hard Ideal Steel owners over there. I want you to pay particular attention to the frowny face because that speaks volumes how this owner feels. Scientific evidence? Who needs it...just listen to the Ideal Steel owners in their own words. If anyone wants the address, PM me.

It looks like it's gotten so dicey over there that the "head Ideal Steel leader" posted today, "PM sent to the IS owners". I can only imagine what was said. It probably went something like this: Hey guys, be really careful what you say about your Ideal Steel. People are watching our thread and posting what we say on other sites. Can't have real world burn times getting out there because it might support what Idahonative is saying.

It's gotten to the point where BrianK doesn't want to post anything on this forum: "There's just too much pathological behavior going on here to have a rational reasonable discussion." I guess the facts are hard to discuss if not everyone is on board. It's much easier to go to another site where other, like minded, owners can stoke your ego.

All very nice, but irrelevant. Let's take it one step at a time:

Do you agree that since these two stoves produced about the same particulate emissions from the standard load of wood, that they therefore extracted about the same amount of energy from that load?

 

[Chris-PA]

I'm tired of the bickering.

I'll probably not come back to this thread. Too bad, it started out as good discussion.

Agreed, but this kind of blatant propagandizing and brand bias is part of why there is so much confusion out there about stoves. It's fine to say "I'm really happy with my stove and it works really well for me" - that's a good data point for someone considering a stove. When it moves into relentlessly pushing fantastical claims that defy reason, then I think that should be exposed.

I really could care less about these two specific brands or stoves. I wish the topic had stayed with with useful information on the two types of stoves, rather than devolving into a brand war.

 

[Idahonative]

Agreed, but this kind of blatant propagandizing and brand bias is part of why there is so much confusion out there about stoves. It's fine to say "I'm really happy with my stove and it works really well for me" - that's a good data point for someone considering a stove. When it moves into relentlessly pushing fantastical claims that defy reason, then I think that should be exposed.

I really could care less about these two specific brands or stoves. I wish the topic had stayed with with useful information on the two types of stoves, rather than devolving into a brand war.

Well Chris, say what you want, but forums are about information even if it's information you don't agree with. Me bringing first hand information into this thread from an Ideal Steel owner is not propaganda (or irrelevant). If I were shopping for a new stove and the Ideal Steel was a consideration, I would find this information very helpful. I've said all I can say on this subject and don't expect to change your mind nor does it matter one way or the other. There will be many potential buyers out there that find this thread useful and that's what it's all about. Take care.

 

[wampum]

I have burnt wood primarily for over 30 years.Many times I have had hot coals in a stove 24 hours after I loaded it.These times occurred when the nights got cold and the next day and evening stayed warm.But never have I had a stove stay longer then 8 to 12 hours of useful heat in cold weather.I like my woodstock,but I do not like replacing parts that warp.In my experience this is going to be the nature of the beast for the future unless a design change has made the stove better.

The last couple of weeks here it has hovered in the teens and single digits.The wife told me tonight or tomorrow we can expect it to go close to 10 below.My primary stove will not heat my house when it gets this cold.I have to fire my other stove in the basement or turn on electric heat.

To be truthful I am guilty over the years of defending any brand I have owned.wether it be a car a saw,stove or coffee.I have found that this is foolish,people with Fords and Chevys pull trailers just as big as I do with my Dodge diesel.People with other stoves heat their homes just like I do.I have found that the old stoves put out a lot of heat but burn more wood.However my Fisher in the basement is close to 40 years old.My Woodstock will not fair that well unless there is a good design change.Because when the cast iron plate warps it does not put out the heat it is suppose to.

I took a good look at that new IS stove from Woodstock,looks real pretty.But it sure scares me. The Woodstock stove I have has interior panels made of cast iron that warp and erode, and need replaced over time.That IS has all kind of panels,gates and what have you that I am scared may suffer the same fate.I would be a lot more confident if that stove had a full 5 year warrantee.I read in an other post here that the person writing it said they heard of Woodstock replacing parts years after the warrantee was over.I guess they do not like me because all the parts I have needed they do not bat an eye as they gladly charge me for them.

Woodstock ads like to show you soapstone stoves that are still around over 100 years later.But these old stoves do not have all the baffles and plates inside that warp and render the stove basically useless unless they are replaced.Personally after the experiences I have had I would be very cautious buying any stove from anyone that has fancy interior designs.But that is just me.

 

[Del_]

It looks like it's gotten so dicey over there that the "head Ideal Steel leader" posted today, "PM sent to the IS owners". I can only imagine what was said. It probably went something like this: Hey guys, be really careful what you say about your Ideal Steel. People are watching our thread and posting what we say on other sites. Can't have real world burn times getting out there because it might support what Idahonative is saying.

Your typical imaginary BS.

You must not realize it but you are making Blazeking look like they use shoddy marketing practices and are using shills to promote their products.

 

[Chris-PA]

Personally after the experiences I have had I would be very cautious buying any stove from anyone that has fancy interior designs. But that is just me.

No, it's not. There is a cost to complexity that our society seems to be blind to, and it's going to bite us in the ass.

 

[Idahonative]

Your typical imaginary BS.

You must not realize it but you are making Blazeking look like they use shoddy marketing practices and are using shills to promote their products.

Really Del? How could I make Blaze King (the company) look like anything? I have absolutely no connection to Blaze King whatsoever. I think anyone with half a brain wouldn't hold anything against Blaze King for the things I've said.

This might surprise you but I have no loyalty towards Blaze King other than owning a product of theirs that performs exactly as they said it would. But you can bet if something goes wrong with it, members on this forum will be the first to know. I call it like I see it regardless of what name is on the stove. If Blaze King starts making stoves that only heat my home for 10-14 hours, watch how fast I turn on them.

Blaze King is (at least right now) the Gold Standard in the industry and their technology allows their stoves to do things others cannot even come close to. Call it magic, call it voodoo, call it BS, you can even call me a liar. It really doesn't matter to me because I witness that technology everyday and it is damned impressive.

 

[wampum]

Really Del? How could I make Blaze King (the company) look like anything? I have absolutely no connection to Blaze King whatsoever. I think anyone with a half a brain wouldn't hold anything against Blaze King for the things I've said.

This might surprise you but I have no loyalty towards Blaze King other than owning a product of theirs that performs exactly as they said it would. But you can bet if something goes wrong with it, members on this forum will be the first to know. I call it like I see it regardless of what name is on the stove. If Blaze King starts making stoves that only heat my home for 10-14 hours, watch how fast I turn on them.

Blaze King is (at least right now) the Gold Standard in the industry and their technology allows their stoves to do things others cannot even come close to. Call it magic, call it voodoo, call it BS, you can even call me a liar. It really doesn't matter to me because I witness that technology everyday and it is damned impressive.

Just curious,I believe in an other post you or someone said that stove lasted 40 hours. I have had stoves last with hot coals in them close to that,but the heat transferred over that period tapered off greatly.I just added wood opened the draft and we were burning again.But what about your stove,lets say its 30 degrees out,you fire it up and your inside temp goes to 80 and tapers off to say 72 after peak heat.With out touching that stove what is your room temp 5 hours,10 hours,20 hours,30 hours and 40 hours latter?

If that stove keeps your room temp steady or close over that many hours with out touching it in 30 degree weather,that there is impressive.

 

[Idahonative]

Just curious,I believe in an other post you or someone said that stove lasted 40 hours. I have had stoves last with hot coals in them close to that,but the heat transferred over that period tapered off greatly.I just added wood opened the draft and we were burning again.But what about your stove,lets say its 30 degrees out,you fire it up and your inside temp goes to 80 and tapers off to say 72 after peak heat.With out touching that stove what is your room temp 5 hours,10 hours,20 hours,30 hours and 40 hours latter?

If that stove keeps your room temp steady or close over that many hours with out touching it in 30 degree weather,that there is impressive.

It will keep the room temp steady without touching it in much colder temps than 30 degrees. We like to keep our house somewhere around 73 f (in the living area, not bedrooms). There are no wild temperature swings with this stove. That is because Blaze King developed an automatic damper for their products. This is the one thing that no one has talked about on this thread but it makes a HUGE difference when you are talking about "heating efficiency". You take the highs and lows of the heat curve and squeeze it into much more consistent heat. Most days, the temperature in our house doesn't raise or lower more than about 2.5 degrees of where we have the thermostat set. So the low might be 70 and the high might be 75 for the entire day.

The auto damper works just like the thermostat in your home. Let's say you set your gas furnace at 72 degrees. When the temperature gets down to maybe 70, the furnace kicks on. When it heats the house up to maybe 74, it kicks off. The same is true on the Blaze King products and to my knowledge (someone correct me if I'm wrong), they are the only manufacturer that uses this technology. The damper will open and close depending on the desired temperature in the home. It does this with a bi-metalic coil that is maintenance free and requires no electricity. You want to keep your house around 72 degrees? Load the wood, set the thermostat and leave it alone for 30-40 hours. And to be clear, that is 30-40 hours of real world heat, not just a few hot coals after 10 hours. I would say 30-40 hours of real world heat for homes up to about 1500 sf with temps at 0 degrees or above and obviously the home needs to be well insulated.

A stove with a manual air control system can't adjust to changing conditions. Let's say you have the manual control set when you leave for work in the morning and the temp is 5 degrees outside. While you are gone to work, the outside temp gets up to 30 degrees but your stove is still trying to pump heat out like it's 5 degrees. A wood stove should be like a gas furnace...generate more or less heat automatically depending on what you want the inside temp to be.

We don't burn hardwood as our everyday wood but we did two "real world" tests using mostly hardwood (there was some pine mixed in to fill gaps). We have a small house (1250 sf), the temps were mostly single digit and only 5-6 hours of sun for the entire test (test #1). It heated our home for 43 hours:

Nov. 15, 17:35 - Loaded the stove with 2 pieces of pear and 2 pieces of plum and filled the gaps with smaller pieces of lodge pole. Burn off until 17:55.
Cat temp: 1300
Flue temp: 500
Inside temp: 75
Outside temp: 19

Nov. 16, 00:01 - Thermostat set on "2"
Cat temp: 900
Flue temp: 200
Inside temp: 73
Outside temp: 6

Nov. 16, 06:00 - Thermostat set on "2"
Cat temp: 1200
Flue temp: 290
Inside temp: 70
Outside temp: 1

Nov. 16, 09:20 - Thermostat set on "2". Burn off for 15 minutes.
Cat temp: 700
Flue temp: 190
Inside temp: 70
Outside temp: 7

Nov. 16, 19:45 - Thermostat set on "2". Burn off for 30 minutes.
Cat temp: 600
Flue temp: 150
Inside temp: 71
Outside temp: 13

Nov. 17, 06:30 - Thermostat bumped up to "2.5". Burn off for 40 minutes.
Cat temp: 600
Flue temp: 150
Inside temp: 67
Outside temp: 4

Nov. 17, 12:35 - Concluded test with approx. 2" of hot coals in bottom of stove. New wood started burning within 1-2 minutes.
Cat temp: 500
Flue temp: 150
Inside temp: 69
Outside temp: 15

 

[Flamestead]

Hi all, a newbie to the site as a member here, although I've been a lurker for years. I'm on other sites, under the same name.

I'm burning through about my 17th cord in the Progress Hybrid since we bought it in 2012, and put about 6 or 7 cord through the Ideal Steel last year. Heating a house built in 1797, 2-story plus walkout basement, with a 40'x44' footprint. Doing it mostly with wood, but also about 100g of oil per year. Prior to the PH we had a Tempwood for 10 years, which was a nice stove for its time, but quite undersized for this house. Going back further, I've been tending many different woodstoves, cookstoves, and indoor furnaces since the early 70's.

In our current cold spell we are on a 4-load per day schedule. I'd like the heat from a 5th if I could squeeze it in, but also like to sleep. Burning mostly 2yr Red Maple and Ash. I used to envy stoves that were reported to have long burns, but the more I think about it, I think I should be envying their house's insulation, or being glad I don't live in such a warm climate as they do!

Kudos to those approaching this thread with math and science. At the end of the day, there is no way around the laws of thermodynamics. One of my professors used to advise looking to the limits to help gain insight on a problem. If the perfect stove burned the same load as I use, at 100% efficiency, {edit: for 24hr} and we were only interested in the one variable of burn time, this would suggest my stove is running at 25% efficiency. I don't know how efficient my burning of the PH is, but it isn't ideal - I sacrifice some higher stack temps (550-600F internal temp the first hour) to keep the stove running hot and the house warm. But I am fairly sure based on lack of smoke and a clean flue that I'm somewhere near the expectations. Still, if one were a skeptic of my stove and methods and only credited me a 50% burn efficiency, that implies the perfect stove, all else held equal, would only have a 12 hr burn.

Clearly (and obviously) there are more variables than just burn time and efficiency; as pointed out several times by others here, you also have to consider the amount of heat generated during the burn. So now when I read of very, very long burns I am sure to apply liberal adjustment factors to bring their conditions in line with mine.

 

[Idahonative]

I took a good look at that new IS stove from Woodstock,looks real pretty.But it sure scares me. The Woodstock stove I have has interior panels made of cast iron that warp and erode, and need replaced over time.That IS has all kind of panels,gates and what have you that I am scared may suffer the same fate.I would be a lot more confident if that stove had a full 5 year warrantee.I read in an other post here that the person writing it said they heard of Woodstock replacing parts years after the warrantee was over.I guess they do not like me because all the parts I have needed they do not bat an eye as they gladly charge me for them.

Woodstock ads like to show you soapstone stoves that are still around over 100 years later.But these old stoves do not have all the baffles and plates inside that warp and render the stove basically useless unless they are replaced.Personally after the experiences I have had I would be very cautious buying any stove from anyone that has fancy interior designs.But that is just me.

Wampum, thank you for sharing your first hand account of your Woodstock stove. And maybe, since you are a staff member, your statements won't be attacked because someone thinks you're insulting their brand. Experiences like what you had with your Woodstock is exactly why I made these statements earlier in this thread:

"The pro rated warranty on the cat isn't the biggest problem in my opinion. It's the ONE YEAR, PARTS ONLY warranty on the firebox especially on a new design that hasn't been proven in the marketplace. If I am a potential customer, that warranty tells me the company has no faith and doesn't stand behind their product. That may not be true but that is what it tells me. Someone said above that the company in question has great customer service and routinely covers items out of warranty and sends customers upgrades free of charge. Then why not just improve the warranty on paper? It is a significant selling point and it gives customers piece of mind that their hard earned dollars were well spent."

"Another consideration is the fact that wood stoves are constantly expanding and contracting during use. This puts stress on "weak points" that can warp or break over time. It takes years to discover where all the weak points are. Designs that have been on the market for years (or decades) have been through this process. A new design like the IS has not and with their sub par warranty, it would no doubt be a deal breaker for me. And I don't believe the guy from Woodstock concerning the warranty. He doesn't know for sure if the warranty info is on their website? Isn't it his job to know something so basic? I believe it is a company decision not to publish the warranty because they know it definitely is not a selling point for their stoves. They just play dumb when someone calls up asking about it but with a little prodding, will give it out."

 

[JA600L]

First off, let's make one thing clear.
We do not all have well insulated 1500 Sqft or under houses. If that is what I had, my Ideal Steel would EASILY heat that space for 24+ hours. Given that it is a good bit smaller firebox then the king I would call that comparable.
Second, the Ideal Steel does have an automatic air feed to the catalyst. So rather then adjust the primary air it adjusts the secondary air. I understand that this is not the same as an adjustable thermostat, however, it does aid in stove performance. I am regularly away from my house 11-12 hours a day and my heat pump has not kicked on once all winter. This is heating 1800 sqft " 2400 sqft " including garage 70's built rancher with hardly any insulation in the walls and bedrooms above the garage. I've done EASY 16 hour plus burns.
I would love to get 24 hr plus burns, but getting a Blaze King wouldn't solve my problem. My house simply can't retain the heat.
If your house can't retain the heat what do you do? Open up the thermostat or air control and lose all that valuable burn time. If it heats the house you win.
I'm a mechanic by trade. The AWESOME thing about this stove is that you can take it all apart and put it back together. If something warps you can remove it hammer it and put it back in service in a matter of minutes. This is better than any warranty. If I can avoid having to call them up anytime I have a problem, then that gives me the power to do my own repairs which means I can be self sufficient. The secondary burn in my Quadra Fire cracked and broke and instead of turning bolts I had to cut, grind, and weld to fix it.
The firebox "chassis" of the Ideal Steel is extremely well constructed and very durable. The reality is if you crack or warp that you over fired it and deserved it.
If you don't like the andirons warping you just take them out. No big deal. I'm sure Woodstock will end up making them thicker. It's a new design, but the base construction of this stove is very well built. There are signs of quality everywhere you look on it. This is coming from someone who regularly does warranty repairs on heavy equipment and I know quality.

 

[Idahonative]

First off, let's make one thing clear.
We do not all have well insulated 1500 Sqft or under houses. If that is what I had, my Ideal Steel would EASILY heat that space for 24+ hours. Given that it is a good bit smaller firebox then the king I would call that comparable.
Second, the Ideal Steel does have an automatic air feed to the catalyst. So rather then adjust the primary air it adjusts the secondary air. I understand that this is not the same as an adjustable thermostat, however, it does aid in stove performance. I am regularly away from my house 11-12 hours a day and my heat pump has not kicked on once all winter. This is heating 1800 sqft " 2400 sqft " including garage 70's built rancher with hardly any insulation in the walls and bedrooms above the garage. I've done EASY 16 hour plus burns.
I would love to get 24 hr plus burns, but getting a Blaze King wouldn't solve my problem. My house simply can't retain the heat.
If your house can't retain the heat what do you do? Open up the thermostat or air control and lose all that valuable burn time. If it heats the house you win.
I'm a mechanic by trade. The AWESOME thing about this stove is that you can take it all apart and put it back together. If something warps you can remove it hammer it and put it back in service in a matter of minutes. This is better than any warranty. If I can avoid having to call them up anytime I have a problem, then that gives me the power to do my own repairs which means I can be self sufficient. The secondary burn in my Quadra Fire cracked and broke and instead of turning bolts I had to cut, grind, and weld to fix it.
The firebox "chassis" of the Ideal Steel is extremely well constructed and very durable. The reality is if you crack or warp that you over fired it and deserved it.
If you don't like the andirons warping you just take them out. No big deal. I'm sure Woodstock will end up making them thicker. It's a new design, but the base construction of this stove is very well built. There are signs of quality everywhere you look on it. This is coming from someone who regularly does warranty repairs on heavy equipment and I know quality.

Kind of ironic you would show up here...I was just reading all your posts over at H---th in your "Ideal Steel Updates" thread. Don't take this the wrong way but there isn't much you could post that I would take seriously after reading your posts over there. You start your thread with this:

"Hi guys,
I figured I would give you a little update on how the Ideal Steel is doing after a few months of burning.
1. The stove is very capable of running low and slow. I am away 11 hours a day and it keeps my house warm (70 average) while I'm gone ( 3 bedroom rancher heating from basement ). I always have charcoal bodies of the logs when I get home. So I can stir them up a bit and get even more burn time if I want. I was getting 16 hour weekend burns when I was home during late shoulder season.

2. It survives single digit weather for 11 hours. It did this without flaw.

3. When you burn this stove hot, it really pumps heat. On a 12 degree day I took the upstairs thermostat from 69 to 76 degrees in 1 hour on a hot burn.

4. The stovepipe stays clean. I just get a light soot that easily cleans up.
5. The catalyst really reeks havoc on the radiator plate above it. I have seen this plate bright red. It flakes the metal so you have to clean that off the cat from time to time. I can see that part eventually thinning out and needing replaced.

6. The stove really leans toward a cat burn. The secondaries are very effective when you ask for it, but when you turn down the air it loves to settle into a cat burn. The box goes black and the temps really increase then stabilize without overfiring. 500-650 hot spot temps are common. At this point the cat and plate above are Red. You can see this by tilting the lid up slightly.

7. It is not great at burning down coals. The primary air is not as effective as my Quadra-fire was during coaling. The good news is this makes for a prolonged burn during shoulder.

Basically, my heat pump has not come on once this winter. I can burn overnight on 3 medium splits of hardwood and have coals in the morning with 70 + temps. It is an effective whole house heater."

You join this forum to tell us, "I've done EASY 16 hour plus burns" and we discover from your posts in another thread that it was from the shoulder season. We also know that you are getting 11 hours of real world heat out of your Ideal Steel during normal winter temps. Come on dude, leave your biased crap over at H---th.

 

[JA600L]

Kind of ironic you would show up here...I was just reading all your posts over at H---th in your "Ideal Steel Updates" thread. Don't take this the wrong way but there isn't much you could post that I would take seriously after reading your posts over there. You start your thread with this:

"Hi guys,
I figured I would give you a little update on how the Ideal Steel is doing after a few months of burning.
1. The stove is very capable of running low and slow. I am away 11 hours a day and it keeps my house warm (70 average) while I'm gone ( 3 bedroom rancher heating from basement ). I always have charcoal bodies of the logs when I get home. So I can stir them up a bit and get even more burn time if I want. I was getting 16 hour weekend burns when I was home during late shoulder season.

2. It survives single digit weather for 11 hours. It did this without flaw.

3. When you burn this stove hot, it really pumps heat. On a 12 degree day I took the upstairs thermostat from 69 to 76 degrees in 1 hour on a hot burn.

4. The stovepipe stays clean. I just get a light soot that easily cleans up.
5. The catalyst really reeks havoc on the radiator plate above it. I have seen this plate bright red. It flakes the metal so you have to clean that off the cat from time to time. I can see that part eventually thinning out and needing replaced.

6. The stove really leans toward a cat burn. The secondaries are very effective when you ask for it, but when you turn down the air it loves to settle into a cat burn. The box goes black and the temps really increase then stabilize without overfiring. 500-650 hot spot temps are common. At this point the cat and plate above are Red. You can see this by tilting the lid up slightly.

7. It is not great at burning down coals. The primary air is not as effective as my Quadra-fire was during coaling. The good news is this makes for a prolonged burn during shoulder.

Basically, my heat pump has not come on once this winter. I can burn overnight on 3 medium splits of hardwood and have coals in the morning with 70 + temps. It is an effective whole house heater."

You join this forum to tell us, "I've done EASY 16 hour plus burns" and we discover from your posts in another thread that it was from the shoulder season. We also know that you are getting 11 hours of real world heat out of your Ideal Steel during normal winter temps. Come on dude, leave your biased crap over at H---th.

Who said I'm biased? You just twist everything that anyone says. I'm just trying to figure out why you hate this stove so much? It's a quality unit and yes it does do easy 16 hour burns in the shoulder season. As I've mentioned my house is too big and under insulated to do that when it's zero outside.

What good is giving any kind of review if your just going to manipulate and twist everything that anyone says? I didn't come here to fight with you. I am posting to restore some faith in a company that you are bashing with no experience to account for it.

Whatever your issue is leave me out of it. Don't quote my posts and mind your own business.

 

[Chris-PA]

The same is true on the Blaze King products and to my knowledge (someone correct me if I'm wrong), they are the only manufacturer that uses this technology. The damper will open and close depending on the desired temperature in the home. It does this with a bi-metalic coil that is maintenance free and requires no electricity.

OK, I'll volunteer. It's old tech, my Dad's old no-name stove from the 1970's has it. I believe it was a copy of something like a Vermont Castings stove. Like the thermostats on space heaters, it is only marginally effective as it is located too close to the stove.