Chain Angles?

[SmokinDodge]

With a rather large number of members recently getting grinders I was wondering what kind of angles everyone was using to grind and what they are cutting. Not intended to be a heated debate, just discussion.

I'm using 30 degree top plate, 55 degree back angle with the 10 degree tilt on the vice for the frozen Red Oak and Ash I'm cutting on Stihl semi chisel. These angles seem to hold up well but I'm getting ready to try more of a 60 degree for less hook.

 

[Woodie]

Not intended to be a heated debate, just discussion.

On this board?? Put down the pipe, man... :hmm3grin2orange:

 

[livewire]

I just got mine yesterday...so I'm still experimenting.

I am curious what everyone else is doing, though!

 

[SmokinDodge]

On this board?? Put down the pipe, man... :hmm3grin2orange:

The only kind of pipe I have is exhaust, "man".

 

[computeruser]

I usually run 30-35, 60, 10 for chisel, and 30, 60, 0 for semi-chisel. Been running the same angles for years, and with a bit of care and some work to remove excess material from the back of the cutter I can make a very fast round-ground chisel using a 35 degree top angle.

There's no advantage to running 10 tilt for semi, so far as I can figure, but others are free to chime in on why I'm wrong.

 

[Woodie]

The only kind of pipe I have is exhaust, "man".

Whoa, now...I didn't mean it that way...

 

[SmokinDodge]

I usually run 30-35, 60, 10 for chisel, and 30, 60, 0 for semi-chisel. Been running the same angles for years, and with a bit of care and some work to remove excess material from the back of the cutter I can make a very fast round-ground chisel using a 35 degree top angle.

There's no advantage to running 10 tilt for semi, so far as I can figure, but others are free to chime in on why I'm wrong.

Care to elaborate on modding the rear of the cutter?

I can't wrap my brain around why 10 tilt for chisel works, much less for semi. But right in the back of the Stihl manual it recommends to do it for cutting frozen wood, it can't hurt I guess?

 

[computeruser]

Care to elaborate on modding the rear of the cutter?

I can't wrap my brain around why 10 tilt for chisel works, much less for semi. But right in the back of the Stihl manual it recommends to do it for cutting frozen wood, it can't hurt I guess?

Here's a picture of the chain half of the way through modifying the backside of the cutter, as well as an unmodified chain for comparison. It is a pain to do but it does seem to speed things up. For me doing this yielded a 1 second improvement for two passes in 8x8 poplar with my 066 (4.8 to 3.8 seconds) when compared to the same chain without the modification. It also feels faster in regular cutting, too. I did it by running the chain backwards through the grinder using the 1/4" wheel at a 45 degree angle. The final product is ground down a bit more from what is shown here, and I did clean up the gullets.

It isn't worth the effort to do this to all my chains, but it does make for a quicker play chain that you easily can do with a regular round grinder.

 

[drmiller100]

i am beginning to think that no one really understands what the various angles really do when sharpening chain.

especially for work chain.

double especially for semi chisel.

for chisel, the angles seem "simpler" to figure out.

Please someone prove me wrong!!!!!!

 

[SmokinDodge]

i am beginning to think that no one really understands what the various angles really do when sharpening chain.

Maybe so, wouldn't it be nice if there were a thread were we could discuss it in detail?


As far as semi vs. chisel I can't even speculate about the difference of angles, I just picked up my first loop of chisel last weekend!

 

[livewire]

'SmokinDodge'..."I'm using 30 degree top plate, 55 degree back angle with the 10 degree tilt"

SD!!!

I tried those numbers on an old loop of skip semi chis. I took it out to a pile of rounds and it cut fast and effortlessly! Nice clean cut! So I did it again, and again, and again...

(Wasn't there a thread that asked what the point was to cutting cookies?)

In short the grinder has won over this hardened handfiler. Thanks for the thread, SD.

I look forward to trying out some of the other folks numbers for their loops!

 

[SmokinDodge]

Here's a picture of the chain half of the way through modifying the backside of the cutter, as well as an unmodified chain for comparison. It is a pain to do but it does seem to speed things up. For me doing this yielded a 1 second improvement for two passes in 8x8 poplar with my 066 (4.8 to 3.8 seconds) when compared to the same chain without the modification. It also feels faster in regular cutting, too. I did it by running the chain backwards through the grinder using the 1/4" wheel at a 45 degree angle. The final product is ground down a bit more from what is shown here, and I did clean up the gullets.

It isn't worth the effort to do this to all my chains, but it does make for a quicker play chain that you easily can do with a regular round grinder.

Nice work Computeruser, I'd say that's a pretty good gain for round ground chain.

 

[B_Turner]

i am beginning to think that no one really understands what the various angles really do when sharpening chain.

especially for work chain.

double especially for semi chisel.

for chisel, the angles seem "simpler" to figure out.

Please someone prove me wrong!!!!!!

I think how sharp a chain is (the actual edge) is more important than anything else and I think most cutter's chains aren't truly sharp. How is that for stirring the pot? I agree with something I read on AS once, "no one is as good at sharpening chains as they think they are."

To be frank, I agree that all the angles (besides the top plate angle) are confusing to me when it comes to semi-chisel. I've bought SC that had so little hook it didn't seem like it could cut very well. I tend to sharpen it with a bit more hook than it comes with, and exactly why I can't tell you. Just seems like it SHOULD cut better that way.....

Square is very obvious and straightforward. An elegant way to sharpen a chain. Anything else seems primitive to me....

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Nice work Computeruser, I'd say that's a pretty good gain for round ground chain.

Did you happen to notice the radically different angles on the left and right cutters? When I first saw the chain I thought maybe it was B Turner making a chain for cutting bowls, to get the curve of the bowl before it went on the lathe.:hmm3grin2orange: Then when I saw his special modification that took 25% off his cutting time, I knew he was trolling.:notrolls2:

 

[computeruser]

Did you happen to notice the radically different angles on the left and right cutters? When I first saw the chain I thought maybe it was B Turner making a chain for cutting bowls, to get the curve of the bowl before it went on the lathe.:hmm3grin2orange: Then when I saw his special modification that took 25% off his cutting time, I knew he was trolling.:notrolls2:

Trick of the camera, that's all. Both sides are ground the same - 35 degrees top, 60 degrees side, and 10 degrees on the vise.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

I believe you...no...really I do. :hmm3grin2orange:

 

[B_Turner]

For me doing this yielded a 1 second improvement for two passes in 8x8 poplar with my 066 (4.8 to 3.8 seconds) when compared to the same chain without the modification.

20 percent gain in speed doesn't make sense to me, or is very surprising at the least.

With an 066 in such tiny wood, other things could easily be at play for such a large difference. And the total times seem kind of slow to me to begin with, although I have never timined anything.

I may have missed that part of the thread, but what do you feel is the mechanical advantage of removing the tooth that could result in such huge gains? Or am I now wearing a kick me sign on my back?

 

[B_Turner]

Did you happen to notice the radically different angles on the left and right cutters? When I first saw the chain I thought maybe it was B Turner making a chain for cutting bowls, to get the curve of the bowl before it went on the lathe.:hmm3grin2orange: Then when I saw his special modification that took 25% off his cutting time, I knew he was trolling.:notrolls2:

Here's a thought. If I could pull enough chain tension (which I can't of course) I could try to design a bar with a big gap (cutaway) that would allow me to use the chainsaw like one of those hand held bandsaws. To cut up turning blocks (internal curves) without going to my big bandsaw.

Or maybe a curved bar (curved top to bottom) to allow me to cut an external curve on a block?

 

[Tree Sling'r]

43-88-20

 

[B_Turner]

43-88-20

I had to think about it for a sec, but sounds like my Silvey Pro Sharp.