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Since I’ve never done this I going to ask, mostly Run 3/8, .050 Chain. If I have 1 or 2 donors lying around I can tear them apart for usable parts?
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Since I’ve never done this I going to ask, mostly Run 3/8, .050 Chain. If I have 1 or 2 donors lying around I can tear them apart for usable parts?
Maybe . . .
This is why I mentioned how you learn a lot about chains doing this. For example, say you only run STIHL, 3/8 pitch, 0.050 chains. You still could have full-chisel or semi-chisel cutters; you could have reduced-kickback links or not; you could have full-comp, semi-skip, or full-skip spacing; and you need them all worn or filed down to about the same length.
Generally, you want your donor links to be from a better chain, which may be counter-intuitive, but you have to grind them down to match the more worn cutters.
I am not a fan of mixing parts from different brands, unless I am confident that they are identical (e.g. 'Makita' chain manufactured by Oregon). I don't reuse presets. But I do save short lengths of chain, and links in good condition, when shortening loops for other bars, or when I get a partially damaged chain. Sorted in little, zip-lock bags.
If you maintain lots of chains, such as for a crew, it is easier if they are all the same.
Philbert
Big_Wood
westcoast dweller
the nice thing about using a press is you can press a link out and reinstall it as there is usually enough meat left to peen it over again. do it all the time so i don't stress on finding presets or tie straps lol i keep some for the common chains i use but that's good enough. never had one come apart.
Timely post; I just pressed out 24 bar nose rivets, salvaging some bars. No drilling, no hammering, and many of these rivets are reusable (I don't reuse presets from chains). I also found a good deal on some presets on eBay.
Philbert
Philbert
OK, here it is. I shrank the Pics down to three in a PDF and then saved them as one JPG. It should load rather fast:
The last pic shows the 4" wide cleat glued to the 6" wide top that is 16" long. Both are 5/4 black walnut. I bevel cut the top all the way around. Nothing fancy, I slapped on a coat of varnish as a sealer before assembling the spinner and breaker.
The mounting bolts holding the breaker are 2" x 7/16" dia. NC and the bolts holding the spinner are 1-1/2" x 3/8" dia. These sink into threaded blind holes that I drilled slightly deeper than the ends of the bolts reached. I drilled the tap holes with 3/8" and 5/16" bits before threading. My technique for threading is to also use the drill press for the tapped holes by turning the chuck manually and pressing as the tap cuts. This insures a plumb threaded hole. Hardwoods such as walnut, ash, oak, etc. can maintain an NC thread with ease and no danger of stripping out.
In use, the cleat drops into my bench's end vise, but the front left vise would also work. When spinning rivets, I overhang the assembly about 2" so that the chain loop can hang freely in front as shown in the second Pic. You might note the steel inlay mounted in my bench. Occasionally I might get some excercise and use it with a ball peen hammer to make some noise as a riveter because I've also made rivets that way for years.
Thanks for looking and reading.
The last pic shows the 4" wide cleat glued to the 6" wide top that is 16" long. Both are 5/4 black walnut. I bevel cut the top all the way around. Nothing fancy, I slapped on a coat of varnish as a sealer before assembling the spinner and breaker.
The mounting bolts holding the breaker are 2" x 7/16" dia. NC and the bolts holding the spinner are 1-1/2" x 3/8" dia. These sink into threaded blind holes that I drilled slightly deeper than the ends of the bolts reached. I drilled the tap holes with 3/8" and 5/16" bits before threading. My technique for threading is to also use the drill press for the tapped holes by turning the chuck manually and pressing as the tap cuts. This insures a plumb threaded hole. Hardwoods such as walnut, ash, oak, etc. can maintain an NC thread with ease and no danger of stripping out.
In use, the cleat drops into my bench's end vise, but the front left vise would also work. When spinning rivets, I overhang the assembly about 2" so that the chain loop can hang freely in front as shown in the second Pic. You might note the steel inlay mounted in my bench. Occasionally I might get some excercise and use it with a ball peen hammer to make some noise as a riveter because I've also made rivets that way for years.
Thanks for looking and reading.
OK, since Wood Doctor posted his here . . .
I used particleboard, instead of highly valuable black walnut. I did not want them permanently mounted to a bench, and wanted something that would take up a little less space when stored.
These bases 'nest' for storage in a small area or box.
They can be clamped to any workbench / table, or held in my woodworking vise with removable cleats.
I recessed rare-earth magnets into the bases to keep the anvils, punches, etc. from falling off. I also epoxied a round ball onto the end of the breaker handle to make it more comfortable to use.
Philbert
I used particleboard, instead of highly valuable black walnut. I did not want them permanently mounted to a bench, and wanted something that would take up a little less space when stored.
These bases 'nest' for storage in a small area or box.
They can be clamped to any workbench / table, or held in my woodworking vise with removable cleats.
I recessed rare-earth magnets into the bases to keep the anvils, punches, etc. from falling off. I also epoxied a round ball onto the end of the breaker handle to make it more comfortable to use.
Philbert
Stupid question here, what kind of press do you got?
I especially like your storage area for the small parts. I'm working on that idea. Two thumbs up.
My "highly valuable black walnut" was two pieces lying on one of my scrap wood shelves. I've thought about making a small box for the loose change parts that could get lost, but really all that I need to do is find a secure place in one of my toolboxes. I do think that havng the spinner and breaker mounted to the same assembly does make some sense. You usually alternate using them back and forth.
Philbert, there seems to be several holes in the bases of your spinner and breaker that mine do not have. Did they come with those already machined? Mine only had two apiece. Also, it appears you or Tecomec switched out the spinner crank for a knob assembly. Nice and compact to say the least.
Now that you have a Spinner / Breaker . . .
You will discover the world of presets (or 'pre-sets', sometimes referred to as 'repair links')! Not a big deal if you only buy 100' rolls of one type/size/brand of chain - they come with the right ones.
But if you work on several different pitches/gauges/brands of chain, you will find a variety! Some presets will fit different chain brands. Some will fit different gauge chains. Some will not fit similar chains, even if the pitch and gauge are the same! Basically, you need 'the right one' for each of your chains.
It can be difficult to visually tell a 0.058 preset apart from a 0.063 one. Or a Narrow Kerf preset from a standard one. So it is best to keep them organized, separated, and labeled IMO. Easy to get confused.
Small zip lock bags and a Plano style tackle box work for me. This one contains Oregon / Carlton compatible presets and tie straps that I use frequently; the labels refer to Oregon chain types and Bailey's ordering information. I have many more in a shoe box, in individually labeled bags, for other types/brands/sizes of chains, along with short sections or components of compatible chain that might be used for repairs or donor links.
Why zip lock bags AND Plano boxes? In case I get clumsy and knock it over - I don't want to re-sort these! Also prevents cross-mixing of similar looking parts.
Looks a little OCD, but it works for me. These boxes come in a variety of sizes if you want to sort by brand, pitch, etc.
Philbert
You will discover the world of presets (or 'pre-sets', sometimes referred to as 'repair links')! Not a big deal if you only buy 100' rolls of one type/size/brand of chain - they come with the right ones.
But if you work on several different pitches/gauges/brands of chain, you will find a variety! Some presets will fit different chain brands. Some will fit different gauge chains. Some will not fit similar chains, even if the pitch and gauge are the same! Basically, you need 'the right one' for each of your chains.
It can be difficult to visually tell a 0.058 preset apart from a 0.063 one. Or a Narrow Kerf preset from a standard one. So it is best to keep them organized, separated, and labeled IMO. Easy to get confused.
Small zip lock bags and a Plano style tackle box work for me. This one contains Oregon / Carlton compatible presets and tie straps that I use frequently; the labels refer to Oregon chain types and Bailey's ordering information. I have many more in a shoe box, in individually labeled bags, for other types/brands/sizes of chains, along with short sections or components of compatible chain that might be used for repairs or donor links.
Why zip lock bags AND Plano boxes? In case I get clumsy and knock it over - I don't want to re-sort these! Also prevents cross-mixing of similar looking parts.
Looks a little OCD, but it works for me. These boxes come in a variety of sizes if you want to sort by brand, pitch, etc.
Philbert
Stihl kickin
ArboristSite Lurker
I think Mr Philbert that you are onto it
I've run into some of the problems Philbert has mentioned here with presets not matching tie straps as you move from one brand of chain to the next, even though the pitch and chain cutters are supposed to be the same. Even the diameter of the connecting holes are different and rivets won't thread through the drive links. It's a bit frustrating.
I might add that I have reamed out holes in drive links to save a preset, but that's a first class PITA and case hardened steel is not easy to drill or ream.
I might add that I have reamed out holes in drive links to save a preset, but that's a first class PITA and case hardened steel is not easy to drill or ream.
One issue is that 'pitch' is measured across 3 rivets; so it is possible for 2 different chains to have the same pitch, even if the distance between the 2 rivet holes on the tie strap are off by several thousandths of an inch.
As Wood Doctor noted, the diameter of the holes in the tie straps OR the drive links can vary between different brands / models of chain.
The thickness of the drive links can also vary. E.g. most STIHL drive links are 0.063" at the top where the presets fit; some may be thinned out to 0.058" or 0.050" gauge at the bottom. Many Oregon drive links are 0.058" at the top for both 0.050" and 0.058 gauge chains, so they use the same presets. Except for 0.050" Narrow Kerf chain. 0.063" Oregon uses a third type of preset.
Simple, right?
Then there were different versions of Oregon 1/2" pitch chain that used different presets!
The simplest thing is to get the 'right' presets for a specific chain (brand, pitch, gauge, type). Otherwise, hope to get lucky!
Philbert
As Wood Doctor noted, the diameter of the holes in the tie straps OR the drive links can vary between different brands / models of chain.
The thickness of the drive links can also vary. E.g. most STIHL drive links are 0.063" at the top where the presets fit; some may be thinned out to 0.058" or 0.050" gauge at the bottom. Many Oregon drive links are 0.058" at the top for both 0.050" and 0.058 gauge chains, so they use the same presets. Except for 0.050" Narrow Kerf chain. 0.063" Oregon uses a third type of preset.
Simple, right?
Then there were different versions of Oregon 1/2" pitch chain that used different presets!
The simplest thing is to get the 'right' presets for a specific chain (brand, pitch, gauge, type). Otherwise, hope to get lucky!
Philbert
Sorry, I missed this part of your post.
My set is a different brand than yours. It is the one Bailey's sells, and has been sold under a few brand names through the years.
The holes on the breaker base are provided for storage of different punches, and for the nose sprocket anvil, although, I keep them in a small box, since I move these around quite a bit and they could get lost
The pressure handle on the spinner fits into a square hole in that knurled, plastic knob that you mentioned. The handle comes out for storage, and to reposition. Bailey's says that you can also substitute a ratchet wrench for this handle, but I think that you would loose the 'feel'.
Philbert
OK, that clears that up. I considered drilling holes in the wood base I built, but that could set up lost parts. Best to use your plastic bag technique for small parts storage or attach a small box somehow.
Say, I was told by an experienced logger that whenever he breaks a chain that he can save both the tie strap and the preset rivets. So, he never has to buy any presets or tie straps. I looked at that in rather skeptical fashion. I've never done that. The ends of those snapped rivets look too mangled or broken off too much save with the spinner. To me, it sets up a potentially weak link that could break apart in use.
What's your view or experience on this salvage issue?
Say, I was told by an experienced logger that whenever he breaks a chain that he can save both the tie strap and the preset rivets. So, he never has to buy any presets or tie straps. I looked at that in rather skeptical fashion. I've never done that. The ends of those snapped rivets look too mangled or broken off too much save with the spinner. To me, it sets up a potentially weak link that could break apart in use.
What's your view or experience on this salvage issue?
I am 'frugal', but not reckless.
There are a lot of things that people 'do', or 'have always done', 'get away with', etc., that are 'not a good idea'.
The chain manufacturers do not advise this; might hold, but definitely creating a 'weak link'.
Here are some photos from my experience:
These are presets and rivets after removal with a purpose-designed press / 'breaker'. Notice how deformed the rivets' ends are. There will be even less material left if the user files / grinds off the ends before punching them out (note that I may salvage and reuse tie straps, if they are are in good condition and not deformed in the removal process - the drive link serves as a press 'die' for this).
Here are a few chains I acquired, and what I found once cleaned up a bit:
Aside from being upside down (many are also inside-out) , note how this tie strap is essentially held by friction, rather than being spun / peened-over to form a mechanical crown.
(Yes; that IS a Pop-Rivet!)
How many different chain brands, and pitches can you spot? Can you spot the re-used preset?
Philbert
I mounted my breaker and spinner on a piece of MDF with a cleat to hold it in a wood working vise, but I tried to install them in a way to make it easier to use without having to change the set up. With the breaker and spinner oriented this way, I don't have to move it in the vise to switch from one operation to the other. The plastic holder for the spare spinners/anvils is fastened to the base to keep everything handy.
I also have a conventional 4" bench vise mounted on a piece of particle board with a cleat so I can hold that in the wood working vise as well.
I keep preset, tie straps, extra cutters, and small pieces of chain in some of those "inexpensive" drawer cabinets you can find at Menards.
I used to keep the breaker/spinner and spare boxes of chain on that shelf over the door, but changed everything so I could put more saws up. The chain boxes and breaker/spinner ended up on some lower shelves making them much easier to access.
Mark
I also have a conventional 4" bench vise mounted on a piece of particle board with a cleat so I can hold that in the wood working vise as well.
I keep preset, tie straps, extra cutters, and small pieces of chain in some of those "inexpensive" drawer cabinets you can find at Menards.
I used to keep the breaker/spinner and spare boxes of chain on that shelf over the door, but changed everything so I could put more saws up. The chain boxes and breaker/spinner ended up on some lower shelves making them much easier to access.
Mark
Mark outdesigned me once again. I was trying like mad to use the right end vise I have on my bench and make a holder that would not move. I gave up. I can use the left side front vise and not have to move the holder around between the break and the rivet spin. But, that means turning the spinner with my left hand, and I'm right handed. Dang!
There used to be an old rule of thumb: your shop layout should allow you to get to both sides of the work bench. By breaking that rule, I've been hamstrung more times than I care to count.
There used to be an old rule of thumb: your shop layout should allow you to get to both sides of the work bench. By breaking that rule, I've been hamstrung more times than I care to count.
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