"Change" and the bore cutting fad

[clearance]

Obama is going to "change" your country, and people who are not pro PNW fallers are going to "change" how trees are to be felled. I was always told-"If it ain't broke, don't fix it"

This bore cutting thing is too much, I see it here all the time now and even talked to a ISA arborist here about how its the "way". I have cut down more trees than I can remember. And have probably seen a million big stumps out in the bush, all made by men I admire, west coast production fallers.

But, apparently, the shallow Humbolt is not the way. I have seen bore cutting vids and pictures that just suck, in my opinion.

Many of them share these traits-Undercut way to small, no where near 1/3, more like 1/6.

Backcuts level with the undercut.

Pie in the undercut that is crazy like 80 degrees almost straight up, which wastes wood and is a waste of time.

And the faller not checking the side of tree away from him to see if he is sawing off the holding wood.

I could go on, I know its taught, by G.O.L. and others, and I use it to buck, but why every freakin tree out there? And what was broke in the old way that so needs to be "fixed"

 

[turnkey4099]

I agree with most of that. Seems the automatic answer to a problem tree is 'borecut'. It sometimes _is_ the answer but not 100 percent of the time.

Harry K

 

[tree MDS]

Something feels so unnatural about that cut every time I've tried to use it - and unsafe as well. I wonder if anyone has ever been smacked in the kisser by a shard of tree using that thing?

 

[motoroilmccall]

Well I think you're over exaggerating the use of the Bore cut. It has its place, no doubt about it, but not every problem tree is bored into submission, not by a long shot. I almost never bore cut a tree unless its for a quarter cut, usually its is always a notch, drop, and wedge if needed deal. GOL is a great program, its run out of my hometown here in NY, by a guy Soren Erikson (sp)who lives in a million dollar home in a neighborhood of yuppies.

I'm not saying its a great way to fell a tree, but I am saying it has its place, and while the old timers never did it, its because they didn't have the ability with a lot of the old technology. I'll stick to the notch and drop, but keep the bore cut in my bag of tricks.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I wonder if anyone has ever been smacked in the kisser by a shard of tree using that thing?

Nope, not me.

I'm not saying its a great way to fell a tree, but I am saying it has its place, and while the old timers never did it, its because they didn't have the ability with a lot of the old technology. I'll stick to the notch and drop, but keep the bore cut in my bag of tricks.

What he said.

At one time the (around a hundred years ago) the humbolt was "New School".

If you are dropping a big stick in the woods there is no reason to use a bore. I use it when I want to have all my wedges in place before starting to really drive them in.

The use of an ope face is to ensure that the hinge holds on and the log does not roll off the stump, or leaver a huge divot. I can often get it to stop before it hits and then cut chunks off onto the loader forks. You do not need to roll the log to finish a cut either.

If all one did was bore cut, then I would question their skill level. Just as I questions a person who refuses to open their minds to new techniques.

You've said you've tried it and do not like it...cool, I like it for some situations. It does not make either of us silly.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

I agree that you should know how and when to use it. it is a great technique to have in the bag. But i have seen a few individuals use it on every tree and it just wastes time.

 

[treemandan]

The bore cut is the truth, the way, and the light.
Nope. I guess I measure a sucessfull landing on how long it takes it to drop and if the hinge holds... oh yeah and if it goes the right direction.
The bore is quite a load to suddenly unleash ( specially if your standing on it), I tend to use other means in some situations where some sweet talking nancy wants to school on the bore.
Though serious thought should be used to determine if a bore cut should be made... then disregarded. Nah, I used it once on a little dead pine ( on pine dr) and that was just last week. It does give an extra second to run.

 

[clearance]

Nope, not me.



What he said.

At one time the (around a hundred years ago) the humbolt was "New School".

If you are dropping a big stick in the woods there is no reason to use a bore. I use it when I want to have all my wedges in place before starting to really drive them in.

The use of an ope face is to ensure that the hinge holds on and the log does not roll off the stump, or leaver a huge divot. I can often get it to stop before it hits and then cut chunks off onto the loader forks. You do not need to roll the log to finish a cut either.

The Humbolt only came into use after the chainsaw made it possible, even when the chainsaws were really big and heavy they used a conventional. So, 100 years is not so. Motoroil says the old timers didn't use because they didn't have the technology. Not so either, ever since the one man chainsaw came along (1950s?) they could have used it but didn't. Why? Because it is uneeded and a waste of effort and time for over 99% of the trees out there.

 

[tree MDS]

Alright one time I think that thing would've been handy: where I used to live there was this red oak leaning heavilly, very heavilly into the woods. I remember talking about it and saying "I dont think I would even attempt to drop that thing, itll barberchair even with the sharpest biggest saw", one night I heard a crash out in the woodline - and sure enough that oak, 34 - 36' snapped clean off at the base- perfectly sound! See why I didnt want to drop it? I would love to go back and try that bore cut on that piece, probably get killed, lol.

 

[John Ellison]

Like most everybody else is saying, bore cutting IS the best way sometimes, but othertimes it is a waste of time and can also be the most dangerous way in some situations.
If you bore cut into a tree in front of someone with minimal saw experience, they will think you can walk on water. I am not refering to anyone on here, but I have seen this at saw/safety felling seminars.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

The Humbolt only came into use after the chainsaw made it possible, even when the chainsaws were really big and heavy they used a conventional. So, 100 years is not so. Motoroil says the old timers didn't use because they didn't have the technology. Not so either, ever since the one man chainsaw came along (1950s?) they could have used it but didn't. Why? Because it is uneeded and a waste of effort and time for over 99% of the trees out there.

My understanding is that it was developed on the Biltmore Estate in The Smokies to add yield to a log. They brought a forester over from Europe, because there was no real science behind the process here yet. Some call it the birth place of forestry/silviculture in NorAm.

Maybe it was impractical out in the PNW because the axmen had to climb into the facecut to finish it off.

 

[clearance]

My understanding is that it was developed on the Biltmore Estate in The Smokies to add yield to a log. They brought a forester over from Europe, because there was no real science behind the process here yet. Some call it the birth place of forestry/silviculture in NorAm.

Maybe it was impractical out in the PNW because the axmen had to climb into the facecut to finish it off.

I didn't know that. If you are using an axe, its a whole lot harder to cut up than down. That must be why, but yes the Humbolt does save wood, and its a safer undercut.

 

[treemandan]

i like to humbolt in the tree. I think that is where it shines. Most of my felling cuts are to low to use it there but I might open it or use it a little further from the groound like say if my bar ain't big enough for a low cut on the flare or mulitple leaders.
The humbolt I like to use in conjuction with " spearing" cuts ( made in the tree). In situations where you want a little control but not a complete fold. The butt of the limb will fall to towards the ground quicker than conventional.
I do like to mix it up and combine technique. Really there is nothing in stone ceptin if you miss you get screwed. That's with everystep I ask myself " Self, are you going to die?" I like to keep on top of things like that.

 

[treemandan]

Maybe they want to use the bore cut cause they don't want people underneath while making big back cuts in the timber. Maybe they just say" Screw the precision just set it up, let er rip and run" Maybe they have had enough accidents where they realized that it was more important just to get the guy out a second quicker. Maybe that is what their ins co told them to do. I don't know I am only speculating.
I do residential and it has to be nice, Hell I am an arborist ( least I have been called that). But I don't know if I really would want to start felling big stick with all sorts of snags and hoopla going with out making the area complety safe. I mean it take a little bit to slice a back cut and the tree while be shifting while your head is down. You can cut the back of the bore with a smaller saw and that in itself make a guy get out faster. You will have to watch all your set up cutting so there is more time involved there... and it could go wrong.
I am not to afraid of a barber cause if it ever happens on me ( which it never really has) I should be able to cope. Came close once on a big fat leaning and crusty silver. If it happened on a hill? ooops and bye bye.

 

[tree MDS]

I love it! Dan, you type just the way you look. Did you get that parrot stoned? lol.

 

[RedlineIt]

Quote:
Originally Posted by clearance
The Humbolt only came into use after the chainsaw made it possible, even when the chainsaws were really big and heavy they used a conventional. So, 100 years is not so. Motoroil says the old timers didn't use because they didn't have the technology. Not so either, ever since the one man chainsaw came along (1950s?) they could have used it but didn't. Why? Because it is uneeded and a waste of effort and time for over 99% of the trees out there.

Originally posted by John Paul Sanborn

My understanding is that it was developed on the Biltmore Estate in The Smokies to add yield to a log. They brought a forester over from Europe, because there was no real science behind the process here yet. Some call it the birth place of forestry/silviculture in NorAm.

Maybe it was impractical out in the PNW because the axmen had to climb into the facecut to finish it off.

In fact, there was an influx of Chinese immigrants to British Columbia back in the late 1800's. While most laboured on road and railway construction, some went logging. Back then, the Chinese man was paid less for the same job as a white logger, sometimes half as much, just the way things were.

One way out of this situation for the "Chinaman" was to sign on for piece-work, producing cedar shake-blocks and planking for the construction of a logging camp. Paid by the cord for shake-blocks and by the board foot for face-split lumber, they did not waste the butt end.

They cut with axes and cross-cut saws, on springboards, but they undercut the face as far back as that. Doubt they called it a Humbolt, though...

As far as the bore cutting thing goes, I use it bucking when the top off the log is in compression and there is no room to safely get the bar in from the bottom. In felling, (and I am no logger, make no pretension of being one) I have used it exactly once when an old snag was already resting on my target tree and I wanted the timing of a trigger over gradual movement to give an extra fraction of a second to get my butt out of there.


RedlineIt

 

[motoroilmccall]

The Humbolt only came into use after the chainsaw made it possible, even when the chainsaws were really big and heavy they used a conventional. So, 100 years is not so. Motoroil says the old timers didn't use because they didn't have the technology. Not so either, ever since the one man chainsaw came along (1950s?) they could have used it but didn't. Why? Because it is uneeded and a waste of effort and time for over 99% of the trees out there.

You go try making a bore cut with scraper chain...

And your definition of old timers and my definition ain't the same thing. Sure, guys have been able to do it for a few decades, but just because guys from the PNW don't use it doesn't mean it doesn't serve a purpose. If all you do is keep a stubborn closed mind about everything you'll never learn a thing. I learn a lot more now than I ever did back when I thought I knew everything (wow thats confusing).

 

[clearance]

Originally posted by John Paul Sanborn



In fact, there was an influx of Chinese immigrants to British Columbia back in the late 1800's. While most laboured on road and railway construction, some went logging. Back then, the Chinese man was paid less for the same job as a white logger, sometimes half as much, just the way things were.

One way out of this situation for the "Chinaman" was to sign on for piece-work, producing cedar shake-blocks and planking for the construction of a logging camp. Paid by the cord for shake-blocks and by the board foot for face-split lumber, they did not waste the butt end.

They cut with axes and cross-cut saws, on springboards, but they undercut the face as far back as that. Doubt they called it a Humbolt, though...

As far as the bore cutting thing goes, I use it bucking when the top off the log is in compression and there is no room to safely get the bar in from the bottom. In felling, (and I am no logger, make no pretension of being one) I have used it exactly once when an old snag was already resting on my target tree and I wanted the timing of a trigger over gradual movement to give an extra fraction of a second to get my butt out of there.


RedlineIt

Very interesting Redline. I have never seen an old, old stump with a humboldt but I can believe you. The Chinese were treated badly here in those days, like now they were real hard workers and didn't waste a thing. They pulled lots of gold out of places were there was no gold to be found by the white porospectors. They moved thousands of tons of rock by hand, you can see some of these huge piles along the Fraser north of Lytton.

I use the bore cut bucking so the log doesn't slab, I start at the top, pull my saw towards me and bore in few inches below where I was first cutting. I cut right out to the bottom then stick my saw where I started to finish.

 

[clearance]

You go try making a bore cut with scraper chain...

And your definition of old timers and my definition ain't the same thing. Sure, guys have been able to do it for a few decades, but just because guys from the PNW don't use it doesn't mean it doesn't serve a purpose. If all you do is keep a stubborn closed mind about everything you'll never learn a thing. I learn a lot more now than I ever did back when I thought I knew everything (wow thats confusing).

I never said it was not to be used, it has its place, I just asked "Why every freaking tree" Thats all.

 

[treemandan]

I love it! Dan, you type just the way you look. Did you get that parrot stoned? lol.

You might not know it buddy but you just hit it right on the head. The next time anyone ever has to chase down a pet in a tree just creeeeeeep up close enough to it to give it a SHOTGUN of a whole nother kind. Really kind!
If you give it any of mine be sure to put a net under it.