Changing Bar Pitch on Stihl MS261

[Captain Bruce]

Thank you so I swap the .325 sprocket (rim) with a 3/8 sprocket (rim) and I am GTG? Thank you again.

PS, EDIT: I guess I'm confused why the dealer didn't do that when they swapped the bar. Thank goodness I actually read all through the manual!

I have customers who swap between 3/8" (Full Chisel = milling), and .325 for everyday firewood. That saw with either 18" set-up will scare the woodpile......

 

[StihlPotlicker]

Thanks everyone for all the advice. I'm sorry to ask such a simple question; I think I got a little lulled into "not thinking as much as usual" here because I basically just purchased a saw from a dealer and asked right away about swapping the saw's bar and chain and assumed all the stuff that goes with that would, well, go with that. Arrgghh. Thank goodness I really read through the manual and paused a moment before I fired it up!

Anyway, since I've started this sadly remedial thread I have learned a lot including that my dealer does in fact have in stock a 3/8 7T rim sprocket and I am going to go in today to get that swapped to match the bar and chain. They are super happy to help so no worries with that. I don't really understand why this wasn't done during the initial swapping of stuff except that the guys who helped were actually "parts" and not "service" so maybe they just didn't put 2 & 2 together?

Even when I read the manual and then looked at the sprocket that clearly says ".325" on it, I wondered whether going from 81 cutters to 72 cutters somehow made the .325 ok as in some sort of gear ratio adjustment or something. I thought to myself, "you are overly overthinking things again, just fire it up!" Thank goodness I didn't do that and thank goodness that I asked you all here first even though I admit I am feeling foolish for asking such a simple question. I feel stupid but not nearly as stupid as I probably would have if I indeed hurt the saw by using it with the wrong parts! DOH.

Please accept my apologies while I ask one more overly simple question ... the rim has nothing to do with the gauge of the bar or chain right? In other words my bar and chain are .050, does the rim need to match that as well as the pitch? I can't seem to find anything referencing specific gauges with specific rim sprockets.

Thanks again for all the help and sorry again for such simple questions.

when i bought my 261's i told them i wanted it switched out to 3/8 pitch, and they asked why? the .325 will keep the RPMs up and cut faster. I said because all my other saws are 3/8 pitch. they said makes sense.

 

[HappyHomeowner]

I first snagged some clean photos from the Internet, but they did not look right. So I grabbed a few chains from 'stock (different brands, etc.). In each case you can clearly see that, even though the rivets align ('pitch' = 3 rivets / 2), the cutters definitely show the 'low profile' and that the drive links are a different shape. For all practical purposes, they are 'a different pitch'.

View attachment 999490


Yes, it is very difficult to get a straight, clear answer from STIHL, especially if you are asking about something outside of their standard specifications. Since they generally recommend a 16", .325 bar and chain, they are essentially saying 'you are on your own' from a liability standpoint.

The older STIHL Saw Chain Selection sheet (attached) clearly shows your saw's predecessor (MS260) with a 3/8 pitch, 20 inch bar.

Philbert

WOW! Thanks for this post that is terrific. I think I'm just going to ask the dealer about the actual bar that is listed for the 260 and see if that is still available (apparently the bar to my old 291 isn't available anymore otherwise I would have just put one of those on to begin with). Thanks again you're awesome!

I do want to repeat that despite the difficulties I have had here the dealer is definitely being willingly wonderful about swapping all the original equip so I could continue using my 291 chains on my 261. They didn't balk at all about it ... it is just that it has been a bit of an education and embarrassment for all of us. Ooops. Even when I was at the counter for the third time yesterday and there were two different parts professionals helping and getting all flustamacated about things I tried my hardest not to show the slightest frustration or aggravation about anything because I knew that they were super sincerely just trying to help me. As the kids today say sometimes, "its all good!".

Thanks again for all the advice and all the patience here folks, I really appreciate it all. I'll provide another update as soon as I have one. Thanks Again.

 

[MowerMilitia]

Hi folks, I've seen similar threads but I would appreciate some specific advice from the experts regarding something I saw in the manual to my new to me MS261. I might be overthinking things but before I screw something up, I figured it is better to ask the experts here.

I just purchased a Stihl MS261 originally equipped with a 20" Bar in a .325 Pitch at an authorized Stihl Dealer.

I have several other saws by Stihl including an older MS 291 with a 20" Bar in a 3/8 Pitch and .050 Gauge.

I asked the dealer if it was possible to put a 20" Bar in a 3/8 Pitch, .050 Gauge on my new MS261 so that I could continue using the chains that I use with my MS291.

They were very wonderful about it and put a 20" Bar in a 3/8 Pitch, .050 Gauge (Stihl Part 3003 000 8822 if that matters) on my new MS261 so I could continue using all my 20" Chains (they are all Stihl Part 33 RSC3 72 if that matters). I have not yet used the saw because I just read in the manual the recommended pitch for the 261 for all the assorted bar and chain combinations is .325. They don't technically list any other combination other than with the .325 pitch.

Is there a problem with putting a Stihl 20' Bar in a 3/8 Pitch on my new MS261? I'm thinking this is just in the manual because all the saws are sold originally equipped with the .325 pitch and not because another pitch is incompatible but again before I run it I thought I ought to ask. Maybe the sprocket or something else somehow makes this a bad idea? Or maybe as usual I'm overly overthinking things! I appreciate your assistance.

Please consider that 3/8 chain is about 15% wider than .325. The smaller saws have to work a lot harder and cutting is slower with wider chains if underpowered. Wear and tear on engine and clutch are reduced with skinnier chain too.

 

[ironman_gq]

Is this a full Stihl dealer or a big box type store that just happens to sell Stihl? A Stihl technician would know what works and what doesn't, a typical sales floor or tool counter person at a big box store I could definitely see making these mistakes.

 

[full chizel]

I ordered the performance kit from canada for mine a few years ago. It comes with a 16” picco bar, rim, and 3 63PS chains. It flies through wood and is a limbing light saber.

 

[HappyHomeowner]

Please consider that 3/8 chain is about 15% wider than .325. The smaller saws have to work a lot harder and cutting is slower with wider chains if underpowered. Wear and tear on engine and clutch are reduced with skinnier chain too.

That is probably true however, and I am not arguing anything against what you wrote, my older much less powerful 291 came equipped with the 20" long, 3/8 pitch, .050 gauge bar and chain and I am just trying to get the more powerful 261 to use the same chain ultimately. So I'm sure you're right in general but in specific it seems the 261 (and even the 291) can handle the thicker cutter.

Another thing I wonder but will try to find through using the search tool, is how does the gauge affect the performance? This 261 was equipped with .063 originally and now it is .050. I don't know how that affects anything as far as friction or cut or performance. Lastly the specific chain that I have always used on my 291, and will soon start using on the 261, is labeled as "Rapid Super" from Stihl and honestly I have no idea what that really means but it does indeed seem faster to me than other type chains that I have used. It is still a Green Label (Anti-Kickback) Semi Chisel type chain but it just seems faster at least to me. Anyway, thanks for the comment I can see how that is probably totally true.

Is this a full Stihl dealer or a big box type store that just happens to sell Stihl? A Stihl technician would know what works and what doesn't, a typical sales floor or tool counter person at a big box store I could definitely see making these mistakes.

Well, I'm not sure their status as far as franchising and that sort of stuff but they are an authorized John Deere dealer and an authorized Stihl dealer. They are one of the only two games in town as far as somewhere that sells Stihl but isn't Ace Hardware or something like that. They also sell everything Stihl makes, not just saws. So, not sure really. What I think happened here, and since I've spent such significant time at the counter the last two weeks, is that the parts people helped me, not the service people. Also, the whole time I was there waiting I noticed the techs from the service team would all walk up to parts to say, "I need such and such part number" and then the parts people would wander through the storage system to either get that part or to order that part for them. Then the techs would return to the shop to do their own thing. So I think the parts people really are just parts people, very happy to help but they don't normally do any work (obviously) on these things. I am maintaining an attitude of gratitude about it all because at the end of the day they were happy to help me save a significant amount of money by removing original parts and replacing them with things that work well for all my old chains and that's pretty terrific of them.

I ordered the performance kit from canada for mine a few years ago. It comes with a 16” picco bar, rim, and 3 63PS chains. It flies through wood and is a limbing light saber.

Wow, sounds super fast, I have a picco bar and chain on a Stihl pole saw and man that thing is scary fast sometimes.

Thanks again for all the help here folks, I appreciate it!

 

[JPCalifornia]

The 261 would benefit greatly by having a .50 gauge bar and chain vs. the .63 gauge they come with in the USA. In Europe, Stihl offers a .50 bar (the Light 04 in an 18” length) that is a game changer. I’ve called Stihl several times asking if or when it will be available here but never get a conclusive answer. As many of you guys know the Husqvarna 550XP comes standard with a .50, 325 bar and chain, and the saw rips with the narrower setup.

 

[1289]

I ordered the performance kit from canada for mine a few years ago. It comes with a 16” picco bar, rim, and 3 63PS chains. It flies through wood and is a limbing light saber.

I bought a slightly used late model 026 in 98 ( wide .325 chain ) The older 025 felt lighter and fast, the standard chain here is 3/8p 1.3mm. I went to a stihl store and ordered a 3003 bar 3/8p 1.3mm 13", the dealer didn't know these existed.
Stihl started making these 13" 16" in 1993 and 18" 1995.

Used since, thinning, medium sized, large trees. A month ago 5x 60cm-85cm aspen and 1 birch, 18" 63PM went well. I can cut more wood with a tank of gasoline also.

I told stihl in my country 20 years ago that you should sell and tell the dealers about the narrow chain option and make a .325 narrower version.

 

[JPCalifornia]

I’d really appreciated it if you could post larger, readable pictures of the green product labels on the packaging of the three bars.

 

[Philbert]

I told stihl in my country 20 years ago that you should sell and tell the dealers about the narrow chain option and make a .325 narrower version.

Husqvarna has been selling saws with narrow-kerf .325 chain for decades (?). STIHL probably thought that was a Husky thing.

But, with the increasing numbers of battery-powered saws, formats like narrow kerf and low-profile chain, which reduce power demand, have began getting a lot more attention. Of course, these offer advantages for gas powered saws in some situations as well.

Philbert

 

[quantico]

When.i am saw shopping i have a lot to learn

 

[Bill G]

Let me know if you ever got it figured out. Not that is matters but early on you were confusing the term cutters with drivers but we know what you meant. The .325 has 81 drive links and the 3/8 has 72. The number of cutters will be about have that depending on configuration and yes I have had 33RSF 72

Another member here went through the same basic thing a few months ago. He wanted to run 3/8 on his 026. I run 3/8 20' bars on 026 saws and have no issues. The issue the other member was having is that the 026 rim system uses the "small" 7 spline rim and few if any dealers carry them since most saws that use the small 7 spline are running .325 or LP. I offered to mail him one and ended up mailing him two of them as mine are china ones. I mailed them for free. The son of gunning post office sent it back for insufficient postage which it did not have. I cannot physically go to the post office to correct the issue so it was a long time before I was off work one day and did make it in and get them sent out to him.

Let me know i you need some help

 

[Abbeville TSI]

When I bought my 026 back in the day it was switched to 3\8 chain before i bought it. It worked fine as far as I was concerned, since I was cutting smaller trees away from the pond and keeping the woods trails clean. William, the owner of the saw shop that I worked for did me a favor since .325 chain was scarce in those days.
It wasn't long until I caught CAD, and I bought an 017 for the smaller stuff and topping the trees I cut. Then I sold the 026 and bought an 036 Pro that is still with me.
Having wasted time with that drivel, I bought a MS261C-M and am satisfied with the performance of the .325/.063 16" bar and chain. When I need more I have the 036 Pro or the MS462C-M 3/8/.050 25".

 

[Bill G]

There is nothing wrong with the .325. I just want to run the same bars and chains on all the saws that I can. All the Stihls I use regularly 026, 034,044,066 run a 20" .050, 72DL

I went away from using smaller saws like the 021 025, and 250 on brush because I did not want to mess with 3/8LP. Now the only thing used regularly with 3/8LP is the Stihl pole saw. Somehow adapting a 20" 3/8 bar to it does not sound good even to a crazy guy like me

 

[82F100SWB]

You can take that bar not being compatible with your saw line with a large grain of salt. As long as it is the right mount, which you have, it will work perfectly fine. The 3003 mount fits 024-066 and 261-661. I'm sure Stihl would tell you the 25" lightweight I occasionally run on my 026 and 261 isn't compatible, but it works perfectly fine.

We never got the .063 .325 up here, but the old 23RS was the .063 with stepped down drive links, the new RS Pro is a true .050 Narrow kerf. It is definitely an improvement on a stock saw. My garbage is all ported, so I stick to 3/8 on it, and I usually run a 16 on both the 026 and 261, mostly because I don't often need more bar with the timber around here.

 

[dstrick]

I have a ms261c the dealer swapped to 3/8” 0.050 20” ES Light and double up the felling spikes when I bought it. I wanted it for a number of reasons primarily because I’m in the PNW and others.

 

[Phecda]

Ngl I wanna try one of those picco super 261 conversions to see real world how much faster it is than .325-.063-16” with rapid super. And how grabby/smooth it is.

 

[82F100SWB]

Ngl I wanna try one of those picco super 261 conversions to see real world how much faster it is than .325-.063-16” with rapid super. And how grabby/smooth it is.

I am curious, I know you can tell the difference between 23RS(.063 with drivers stepped down to .050) and 23RS Pro on a stock saw; but my 026 is faster with 33RS than it is with 23RSP, the 3/8-7 sprocket is about the same diameter as a .325-8, but I don't have one in Stihl mini to try on it. I'm not sure where the Picco sprocket falls between a .325-7 and a 3/8-7.
My 261, it's been forever since I ran .325 on it, but I would expect results are the same as the 026.

 

[can]

I have used the stihl 261 pretty much. I have tried to find the best combination of bar and chain for the saw. I have tried the Oregon 21 bpx, Oregon 95 vp, Oregon 95 vpx, Oregon 95 txl, Husqvarna 33 spg, stihl 25 rmc, stihl 25 rsc, stihl rapid super pro. This is all .325 chains, I might forgotten some others too like carlton.
l have also tried some 3/8 lp chains like Oregon 91 vxl, stihl picco micro and the last one picco super. Picco super is far the best so far, I use the same chain on my stihl 201 so I only have one round file a 4,0 mm or 5/32 inch. Use chainsaw semiproffesional. but would have used the same if I had to use chainsaw all of my working day. Have a 16 inch bar on my 261. Most sitka but also pine, birch, willow, and a little bit ash, oak and elm.