Choose your "LIFE SUPPORT" biner

[Stumper]

There is a link somewhere in the archives that shows (testing by Black Diamond) that the damage to alluminium 'biners is mostly myth.-They tested a number of 'biners dropped from heights onto rock and ALL tested at or above rated strength. Retiring one that dropped a long way onto rock is prudent but if you drop it 40feet into the grass no big deal. If you drop it onto the driveway it is probably still no big deal!:angel:

 

[Tom Dunlap]

TM,

While it is considered good practice to downgrade or retire dropped gear, there is no data to support the practice. Take some time doing Google searches on dropped carabiners, etc. If you find any factual tests that show these mythical fractures I would truly love to read the research.

After talking with Denny Moorehouse about this, his reply is "Rubbish!"

Biners are quite maleable. Not at all like drill bits and taps. Very different metallurgy.

This myth needs to be retired along with cement cavity treatments, manila rope and other eight track techniques.

Tom

 

[ramanujan]

i hang myself on DMM boa locksafes, petzl triact and petzl ball locks. all have their pros and cons. i feel that the ball lock is the least likely design to be opened accidently.

i have had a tree open one of my locksafes (it closed and locked again as soon as i moved away from the limb that it was pressing against), so i now always clip them onto my saddle with the gate facing me.

a while ago i was inspecting my biners and found a small crack in the black nylon sleeve of one of my ball locks, evidently from force trying to push the gate open. i always wish that the sleeve was a little more robust and covered the nose of the biner further around.

a four action biner seems uneeded to me, as does a life support biner stronger than 22kn. as already pointed out, 22kn is a lot more than most parts of our body will withstand. go to the ground or stay in the tree? with 22kn of force it's a coin toss in most situations as far as survival goes. three way locking biners foul up enough as it is without an additional niche.

i would venture to say that it's a very rare day that our biners are the weakest part of our climbing systems when we take into account friction hitches and their tress cords, tree crotches, ropes, mechanical rope grabs(which i might add, should be more harshly regulated from life support in any situation in which they could be shock loaded given their pathetically low rope damage/failure points) et al.

it was mentioned on the other site that a very compact triple autolock would be very welcome and i agree. petzl makes a spinlock biner in their compact "jumbo" style but no autolocking. i would definitely like one for my lanyard(s).

 

[NickfromWI]

Originally posted by monkeypuzzle
Graphite grey and lawn green don't seem to be the smartest of colors for tree work.The yellow has potential.

Last I checked, Fresco is selling red, YES, RED Petzl Am'ds. I like that idea. So far, the Am'd/Ball lock is my favorite carabiner.

As far as ideas for a new 'biner- The Am'd has my ultimate feature... A no-snag notch. There are too many carabiners out there that are just asking to grab a strand of my climbing line. There is absolutely no need for it and all companies should cease production of these 'biners.

Another that I like is made by DMM. It's a wire gate that is called the wirelock. You can see it at http://www.dmmclimbing.com/www_noflash/index.asp

I use them on the side of my saddle to hang my chainsaw, as well as for light rigging and a few other things. I love this concept.

love
nick

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Re: Re: Choose your "LIFE SUPPORT" biner

Originally posted by NickfromWI


A no-snag notch.

If one would come with that and rounded cournres on the gate barrel, I would buy them ny the gross.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Re: Life support caribiners

Originally posted by Tree Machine
Excellent point(s)! 50 kN is way overkill. But so is the fact that I prefer to climb on 1/2" bull rope (stable braid) which has an 11,000 lb tensile.

i think it is best to use lines with more buffering give. In many shock loading situations dynamic lines make up for static of higher strength. Higher strength can jsut pass a shock along, dynamic properties can absorb and deal with an overload, sometimes being the shock absorbing rubberband that buffers the load for all else, especially important when my lil'bod is in the chain of events!

i think mostly dynamic lines are best in rigging; prestretched to their 'static range' per the anticipated load, then with the forgiveness in the energy absorbing properties; if ya'get it wrong. Also prestretching the rubberband beyond what is needed can help too....

To me static is best for speedline, low drop of load on system (in trade for not absorbing the energy) etc.


JP; i kinda say don't swim alone, don't climb alone. Sometimes, when guys are out front, don't wnat them under me, or lower to some 2nd or 3rd story roof for me to retieve; i got 1 method maybe.......

i pass a line over a support down to waitng karab(s); then to a support (usually different one) and tie a quick release something or stopped muenter. Cut your load(s) into this 2/1 system, lower and untie the final support and unlace, do it all again. sometimes descend to high roof and clear myself (sometimes after a few runs i finalize by descending to roof, sometimes clear with speed line). For lots of weight use pulley, no sling/karabs-use wide strong crotches with outward C.o.B. Real pinch, light loads, short drop, perhaps tail of....

If i can't get help, wouldn't be safe for guy, or i'm not quite sure of guy working for someone else.....and need to protect sliding glass doors, aluminum/screen room; i'll lower and hang the biggest, thickest umbrella piece in front of obstachle as guard and dump what i can on the safe side of it.

If i can get a good sized first piece, and the hitched/ cut end falls clearest, i'll lower the soft end to the ground and keep cut end up 3-4' (sometimes 15-20' away from me) and lock off the control side of the line(pinch under load line and secure); then speed line (slings and karabs if ya gots'em, forks if not) the other stuff to that cut end of primary/ safe point. Sometimes i can get it all like that. Sometimes 60-80%, just needing untied at end by someone.

i look at the line as the wearable part, especially with friction, loading, bending etc. So think hardware that exceeds the line is a lil' lysdexic!!


Ooooooor something like that.....
:alien:

 

[ramanujan]

Yates Mongoose. 30kn triple autolock with a unique notch/key nose that won't snag rope. I think this is Denny's work.

A bit bigger than I like but the large gate opening is nice.

 

[Burnham]

My favorite has to be the Omega Pacific Modified D 3-Stage Quik-Loc. It is a 30 kN aluminum 'biner. I can open it one-handed either hand in the dark if need be. The other best for me is also by Omega Pacific, the Jake 3-Stage Quik-Loc, a 23kN aluminum with a offset hinge angle to give a very large opening. It has the same mechanism as the Modified D, which is a pull down, then twist motion. For some reason this is MUCH easier for me to work with than any 'biner that requires a push up, then twist motion. Down side to both is they are pretty large in size...this can be something of a hassle at times. I like the Petzl ball-lock for ease of opening and small size, but my work is in conifers, and they can't handle the pitch well enough for me to use them, plus that plastic barrel just doen't inspire confidence .