chunking down big leaning stem next to house

[oldboy]

I'm working on a big (for 20' till it splits) cedar, takes full lanyard length to get started at butt. It's got a slight lean to it, but it makes me weary cause the trunk is so heavy/thick and leaning towrds house. I've chunked down similar sized cedars that were vertical, and I'm confident that I can do this one safely, but I was wondering about ideal notch depth...

I plan on taking it down it 6' chunks or so, since the center of gravity will obviously be on the leaning side, I plan on making my standard notch just less than 3/4 the way through the stem (I remember hearing some arborists say to never go so deep with a notch), then I will rap down (since I'm solo) and crank the tag line I've secured to the top of the chunk to a pulley and come along, crank the come along, then climb back up and make the backcut, using wedges. Would dropping smaller slopeing slabs be the wiser choice? if not, would come along be overkill? The lean is not heavy, but it is there...

thanks for any insight

 

[TheJollyLogger]

Why not just block and throw? I don't remember the last time I rigged a block. In th time it takes to do what you're talking about, you could throw 10 2' blocks off.

 

[pro94lt]

Why not just block and throw? I don't remember the last time I rigged a block. In th time it takes to do what you're talking about, you could throw 10 2' blocks off.

 

[oldboy]

Thanks, sounds like a great technique. I want to drop larger pieces so I can carve them, if the homeowners are alright with that, and it sounds like they might be.

 

[BC WetCoast]

If you are going to butt hitch 6' lengths and catch them with the rope, make sure you have good rope (depending on the diameter of the block). You are shock loading your system like crazy. In most cases, a groundman would have control of the line (usually through a portawrap), and by letting the piece run and slowing it down gradually, you are not shock loading. Remember not only are you shock loading the rope and pulley, but also the stem you are attached to. There's a good YouTube video floating around about a climber who gets fly rodded when the groundie doesn't let the piece run.

3/4 of the tree diameter is too big a notch for this situation in my opinion, especially if you are climbing down and up underneath a cut up piece. A 6' piece with a 1/2 diameter tree notch shouldn't need a tag line, you should be able to push it over if its under 18" diameter.

I wasn't sure if you were going to butt hitch it, because it was leaning over the house.

Got pics?

 

[oldboy]

Thanks BC WetCoast,

I should'a taken pics, but didn't, anyway thanks for your wisdom and info. I am alone, and will be dropping six foot chunks away from the lean (and house) without any rigging, there is a slope below so there shouldn't be a problem with the pieces bouncing into the house. The diameter for the 20' big section from butt to where it splits, averages about 40" (much bigger at butt) and it does have a lean towards the house, that is why I was thinking of going deep with the notches, to get that center of gravity away from the lean. I was planing on attaching a 14mil pull line to the tops of the chunks, then down at a 45dg angle or so, and find a tree form the ground in favorable pull direction and attach a pulley/come along set up, so that the chunks will be tensioned and have some pull away from the house (and me) when I make my backcut. I got all the branches off and snap cutted down the upper part of the tree, it's ready for business monday.

For the sake of fighting the lean concerning chunk felling direction do you think a 1/2 diameter notch and wedges would be the choice option over 3/4 diameter notch with come along line tensioned?

 

[TheJollyLogger]

Honestly, let's take a step back. Why the hell are you working solo? You can justify it any way you want, but you are creating your own problems.

 

[oldboy]

I do a lot of stuff solo that your not supposed to do. Not saying it ain't going to get me killed. My experience with that has made me very cautious, but I know accidents do happen, I just saw your thread in the accident section, sounds like a nightmare, sounds totally unpreventable, one of those things that you can't foresee no matter the experience and wisdom, which sounds like you have a lot of both. Sounded like your co-worker/groundman was key in your survival, by the way you are one tough dude to finish the job, take some pics then go to the clinic. Most people would have called a heli I think.

So yes I know it's stupid. One thing I have learned about doing stuff alone that traditionally takes two for, is that I have control of the task that traditionally would take another to do. This puts the responsibility on me to do it right. I've done some rope solo lead rock climbing where I have the job of the belayer and climber, this is tricky and takes knowledge, a lot of work, and a meticulous triple safety check approach, but at least I know that I'm paying attention and not spacing out at a critical moment, like so many belayer error rock climbing accidents have happened.

A couple of months ago I was chunking down a big tree with the help of a groundie. I attached a pull line to the tops of the chunks. I told him to pull steadily when I gave the word, instead he violently rocked the piece before I could stop him. I was lucky and did not get hurt, but I would have been better off doing it myself by attaching a pull line myself at a 45dg angle to a come along set up and a tree in the direction of the notch...

Cheers, I hope you heal up fast and well.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

appreciate ya, and it does sound like you have some experience, too. I guess at this point, the best advice I can give is you're trying to have your cake and eat it too. First priority is always personal safety, second is property protection, and way down the list is salvaging pieces to
carve.What is so special about this tree that you would risk so much to gain so little?

 

[TheJollyLogger]

Back on topic, just cut a regular notch, going deeper creates more potentisl problems than it solves.

 

[oldboy]

Thanks, and I agree, safety is my #1 concern, and trying to salvage carving material is way down the list of my concerns. But, the reason why I posted this thread was to gain some insight from long time pros like you. I know dropping bigger pieces from a leaning tree can be done safely, but just wanted to hear some insight, as to the ideal safety method, and also given that I have a reason to drop larger pieces, to hear some reassurance that can be done safely with ease, since I think it can, and I've heard that it can, I've seen it done, but I realize my relative inexperience dropping big wood, and don't want my confidence to be made out of arrogance.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

Fair enough. Given that, and going back to your original post, not enough info. How many degrees is the lean? what diameter? pics?

 

[oldboy]

40" diameter with a 10dg-12dg lean (towards house)

Healthy western red cedar. House is about 8 feet from the tree. There is a downslope away from the house below the tree.

 

[pro94lt]

I thought you were climbing for hire... If your carving just call a local tree service they'd be tickled to to dump all the cedar you could ever want. At least around here. Save yourself time money and give you more time to carve. .. just something to think about

 

[TC262]

So your planning on repeling under a notched and back cut tree trunk? Sounds like a death sentence to me. Just get someone to slowly crank the come along on your comand. I'd chunk it in two foot blocks as recommended eairlier, that wood is not worth your life.

 

[oldboy]

"I thought you were climbing for hire..."

I am a climber for hire, but I like to carve too, I already have plenty of material, but I'd rather carve the dropped chunks than cut em up into firewood size.

"So your planning on repeling under a notched and back cut tree trunk?"

No, I would set the crank first, then notch.

"I'd chunk it in two foot blocks as recommended eairlier, that wood is not worth your life."

Well, sounds like this is the way to go, I will probably end up doing this. Initially I thought that taking it down in three pieces or so, would take a lot less time, then 2' sections. I've chunked down big cedar in big sections before without issue, but not leaning like this one, though the lean is only ten degrees or so. I just rewatched the chunking section from Jerry Beranek's "working climber" series. he made it sound like it's no big deal to drop big chunks opposite of their slight lean as long as you get the center of gravity working for you. I also thought this was routine procedure for arborists.

So chunking down big wood is the way to go if it's vertical or leaning favorably, but when the lean is against you, always cut small sections?

thanks

 

[BC WetCoast]

If you can handle the pieces above the fork(split) easily, then what I would suggest is when you get to the fork, put a line in the top and fall the peg whole.

 

[oldboy]

Thanks BC WetCoast, I think I may be able to do that. Thinking about that when I first looked at the job, I thought that chunking down might be safer, cause the center of gravity would be easier to manage with shorter pieces, where as the whole pegs center of gravity must be at the edge of the stump or even off of it, but I guess that's why a come along and wedges come in handy. Anyway thanks for the helpful suggestion.

I just did a few small model, but relative to scale tests on some chunks of wood I had lying around. I was able to successfully drop the leaning chunk away from its lean just by going with a deep notch, no pull or wedge assistance. Here is a before and after backcut pic from one of the model tests.

 

[treebilly]

If there is room to drop it, drop it. Set a line, pretension, notch, back cut, set wedges, finish back cut, give it a tug. A cut on the ground is safer than ten in the air. Remember that even though you can't undermine the cog you have a lot of leverage on a twenty foot stick.

 

[treebilly]

And undermining the cog is a practice that definatly takes a lot of experience to pull off. I just don't know if being close to a structure is the place to learn it. It is a nice trick to have in the bag though.