clearcutting box elder

[Sapwood]

I hang around on a 120 acre piece of property that is about 20% wooded. Lots of nice hardwoods...oak, hickory, elm (mostly dead or dying) and lots and lots of these d@mn box elder. I like to clear them out so the good wood has plenty of sunshine. About 18 months ago I clearcut about 2 acres of these bug trees cause nothing else could grow under their canopy. I take them off at about breast high, leaving alot of stump so the Landowner can pop them out with a backhoe. Well, sometimes it's a year before we get around to stump removal and the stumps look like bushes. We just pulled out about 40 of them last week. My question is: is there a certain time of year that I can cut these things so they die? I have 15' limbs, 1" to 2" in diameter growing off these stumps...as many as 20 or 30 per stump. Would girdling the tree work better to kill it? I've found some decent walnut trees (6"-8" dia) growing amongst them and would like to promote their growth. Any advise

Sap

 

[TREETX]

So you are cutting and replanting boxelder

Clearcutting is a harvesting practice to produce wood over a PERPETUAL series of rotations.

If they are cut and removed, the are just REMOVED.

Not jumping on you, but I really hate the fact that so many people have opinions on clearcutting when they have NO idea what a clearcut is. It is not reducing a stand of timber to a field of slash. That is called removing trees and creating a field of slash.......

If stumps sprouting is a problem, try a little Tordon if you're going the chemical route.

If you just want to kill them, why not a hypo-hatchet w/herbicide??

 

[Burnham]

Treetx, he said nothing about replanting boxelder...or am I missing the boat here??? Sounds like he wants to convert from an undesirable species to a desired one or ones, give him a break. He said he wanted to encourage growth of other species already on the site, so you are right, he didn't clearcut, but he wasn't trying to remove trees totally from the site. Your advice on solving his resprouting problem is right on... .

Edit: Now I get your meaning, Treetx...sorry for denseness .

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

to get good form out of the other trees, I would rather se thinning of the BE, ves eradication.

Basal cut them in the hottest, dryest time of year (you have nto had amny dry days yet this year though) and they are more likely to die. Right after first flush in spring is a good time too. Not even chemical application will give 100% root kill though.

most of the more desireable hardwoods grow in amongst other trees and giving them a lot of light is not nessesarily a good thing, espescialy if you are planning on a future timber yeild. The firs 9-18 feet needs to be straight for a good, marketable sawlog.

 

[Newfie]

I forget where I learned it and if it is a thing that works in warmer climates also but with hardwoods here in New England, winter cut stumps tend not to sprout as vigourously as summer cuts. Some species like Red maple and birch just insist on sprouting.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Chemical treatment is the one sure method to eliminate sprouts.

Cutting to stumps, ground level or chest height, is a way to generate more trees. That's why there is so much aspen growing in the forests ??? in northern MN. Cutting and leaving the slash is not clear cutting. Clear cutting is a logging production method where the useable fiber is harvested methodically to keep a crop growing.

IF you were to cut the trees just after the leaves have formed fully you'll have the trees at thier lowest point of starch storage. The tree has "bought" a new layer of cambium and grown a new set of food factories. Now, the storage compartments are as empty as they will be for the whole year. No starch/money in the savings account. Take advantage of this and cut the tops off. You will still probably get some stump sprouts especially if you cut them high.

Tom

 

[Sapwood]

Ok, maybe clearcutting isn't the correct term. Not sure what you would call it when you eliminate every tree in a given area and create an open field....to me and my small scale area I call it clearcutting. Once cleared, stumps removed and area regraded with a skid loader I will either sow with white oak acorns or perhaps start another food plot (clover). It is not my intent to replant box elder...they seem to be able to regenerate by themself with out to much help from me!

Tom, yeah I agree with chemical usage but not the expense. Cut in the spring after leaves fully form...

Newfie, cut in winter...

JPS, Basal cut in summer (hottest time)...can you define basal, I'm not a tree guy, just a guy who likes tree's.

Burnham, Your right, my message said two things. I have cleared an area totally and I selectivly cut the bug trees in existing stands of good hardwood to promote growth. Sorry if it was confusing.

Treetx, I have no opinions on clearcutting, If I used the term to loosely I apoligise. Like I said earlier, I cleared the area and I did it with a chainsaw...lets call it cutclearing then

so, spring, summer and winter....figures, I did it in the fall!

Sap

 

[Stumper]

The cheap chemical treatments that really work well (at least on stumps over 10" diameter) are salting fresh cuts (Ordinary table salt in a little mounded ring around the stump perimeter just inside the bark) and diesel fuel (cut a shallow groove with the chainsaw bar nose in the top of the stump in the same place as described for salt application. Salt isn't good for your ground but in localized applications like described it seems to leach away rapidly without sterilizing the soil. The EPA would be very displeased with your use of diesel fuel. For some reason they object to the use of a common product that kills many stumps per gallon and breaks down readily in a natural environment. These are not "recommendations" but just FYI. The foregoing statement is CYA.

I think what you are doing could be accurately described as selective forest thinning along with mini clearcuts-but who cares how we describe it?

 

[Sapwood]

Stumper, Thanks for the tip. Deer like salt too! Might be a good attractant... EPA, DNR everybody has rules!

I've been going out to those woods for over 20 years now. I'm concerned that the oaks are dying off and there are only a few stands of young trees. I girdle domenant trees of undesireable species in those stands but I would like to get a program of reforestation going by planting mast. It's not my property so I'm not into buying root stock and planting. I've read alot about growing trees from mast and have decided thats the most inexpensive way to accomplish my goal. Of course I will be dead before they mature but if I don't do it, who will!

Sap

 

[dbeck]

I'd call it boxelder irradication, common practice all over! flush stumps off and give them a dose of tordon rtu around the cambium and you should be fine.

 

[Sapwood]

Dbeck, Thanks. Took down 10 more this weekend...clearing is stating to take shape.

Tree, Lighten up (Enough said!)

Sap

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I still say thinning the stand is better then clearing.

 

[Sapwood]

JPS, At what rate? every other one, every third? There are plenty of them in this particular area. The cleared area will serve as a food plot (I have decided) so lets forget about it being reforested for now. I will thin the rest out at some prescribed rate for timber growth. No need to pull stumps, flush cut and treat with tordon... good sound advise and thanks to all who have given it!

Should I take the biggest ones out? The smallest? What percentage of the canopy should be removed? Whats Basal cut? How much do I owe you?

Sap

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I would not give a hard and fast rule of thumb, but the idea is to give the desirable saplings room to grow, but shade to grow straight in.

So i guess I would thin out the ones that are low spreading first, maybe raise some up if needed.

If the area is to be a for forage, will it be for white tail? FEIS web sight calls it a secondary browse sorce, so maintaining some basal regeneration (basal - from or at the base) in first and second year for the deer to eat.

 

[eyolf]

I never post over here; I'm not as educated as most of you in arbo-science. But Treetx's crabby retort about "clearcutting" leaves me feeling a bit, well, like crabbing back (from Pennstate Forestry College).

<a href="http://www.virtualforest.psu.edu/walkingtour/clearcut.htm"> <b>All trees were removed from this block in one cutting</b>. During the spring
of 1994, numerous seedlings and other types of vegetation quickly occupied the site. In addition, many of the stumps have sprouted. The
slash, or tops and branches of felled trees, provides cover for birds and small mammals, protects seedlings from deer browsing, and adds nutrients to the soil as it decomposes. <b>A clearcut is an effective silvicultural tool for regenerating stands of shade intolerant species</b>. It mimics the kind of disturbance (fire, hurricane, tornado) that occurs naturally. This block will change rapidly in the coming years." </a>

The simplest definition of clearcutting isn't even necessarily for stand management (from dictionary.com)

clear-cut (klîrkt)
adj.

1.Distinctly and sharply defined or outlined.
2.Not ambiguous; clear and obvious. See Synonyms at apparent.
3.Having been logged by clear-cutting.


v. clear-·cut, clear-·cut·ting, clear-·cuts
v. tr.

To remove all of the trees in (a tract of timber) at one time.


v. intr.

To log an area by removing all of the trees at one time.


n.

A tract of timberland that has been clear-cut.

 

[TREETX]

Originally posted by eyolf
IA clearcut is an effective silvicultural tool for regenerating stands of shade intolerant species


clear-cut (klîrkt)
adj.

1.Distinctly and sharply defined or outlined.
2.Not ambiguous; clear and obvious. See Synonyms at apparent.

Thanks for restating my initial point. Helps us have a more clear-cut definition to work with.

 

[Sapwood]

Eyolf, Thanks! Regardless of Treetx's responses or motives I did get the information I was looking for. I have read enough of his posts to know he doesn't always come off that way. I guess I must of hit a nerve. It's unfortunate that new posters seem to get blasted by the very folks who we ask for help. Seems to me a PROFESSIONAL wouldn't feel the need to pizz higher on the tree!

Sap

 

[eyolf]

No treetx

Here's your original point:

<i>If they are cut and removed, the are just REMOVED...but I really hate the fact that so many people have opinions on clearcutting when they have NO idea what a clearcut is. It is not reducing a stand of timber to a field of slash. That is called removing trees and creating a field of slash.......</i>

In my eyes you are saying that there is a difference between cutting down every tree and clearcutting. Maybe the logger is forced to cart away all the leaves and brush in your variation on the theme...

 

[TREETX]

Re: No treetx

Originally posted by eyolf
In my eyes you are saying that there is a difference between cutting down every tree and clearcutting. Maybe the logger is forced to cart away all the leaves and brush in your variation on the theme...

When did I allude to that?? Guess you have never seen a clearcut and all the slash left behind. Maybe you should educate yourself a bit before blathering. At least take the time and try cutting the pills in half.


Plus he stated that there is a residual stand to be left behind.

Intent for future use is the difference.

 

[Sapwood]

Hey guys, Let it go! The thread should have been titled clearing box elder or how do I keep box elder from sprouting. Anyway, I got my answer and I'll be careful what I title a thread in the future.

Sap